IMR4166 OK in Garand?

[Paddyd]

Anyone tried 4166 in a 30/06 Garand? Seems to me to be within the proper burn rate limits and I want to use it to avoid coppering and excess cleaning from the muzzle. If anyone has how'd it go? Have any data to share? I don't see it listed in my Garand section of the manual.

 

[Bart B.]

IMR4166 is between IMR4895 and IMR4064 burn rates according to Hodgdon data.

https://www.google.com/search?q=IMR...droid-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

I think you can start with IMR4064 data.

I've worn out 5 Garand barrels . All sorts of powders between IMR powders 3031 and 4320 burn rates. They all ended up with the same amount of copper wash in the barrel. Never effected accuracy.

 

[Paddyd]

Thanks Bart. I was thinking the same thing, but needed yours and other's thoughts on it since it appears there's no published data on it for the Garand.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

The Garand is designed to operate at certain pressures. You can use most powders in that range as long as you adhere to that range.

 

[Bart B.]

Thanks Bart. I was thinking the same thing, but needed yours and other's thoughts on it since it appears there's no published data on it for the Garand.

You're welcome.

I suggest extruded/stick powders because best accuracy in the well built match conditioned Garands was never attained with ball powders.

 

[Paddyd]

Personally, other than my M1917 , I've never had real good accuracy with ball powder. It seems to prefer BL-C-2over most others.
My Garand isn't anything match, just a very very nice 1941 survivor and I'd hate myself if I hurt it.

 

[fantastic]

I have used it quite a bit since I first found it. 308 Win in an FN-FNAR and it LOVES it. It's very indifferent to temp changes. I have chrono'd loads in the summer time and intentionally left them in the sun as I shot. Didn't change much at all. I found some very accurate loads without much effort.

If you have access to the powder, I say try it. I'd bet you'll find a good load and like it too. Reduced copper fouling is always nice too.

 

[riflewoman]

You're welcome.

I suggest extruded/stick powders because best accuracy in the well built match conditioned Garands was never attained with ball powders.

Decent accuracy in M14 and 308 Garands was found with Match Ammo loaded with ball powder (WC846) , but the barrels proved harder to clean and the zeros were different. So the using services (AMU and USMC team) requested that they not load it with ball powder. I’m not sure that the 30-06 match ammo was ever loaded with ball, but the M2 AP gave good accuracy even when loaded with ball powder (WC852 or H380).

 

[Bart B.]

Decent accuracy in M14 and 308 Garands was found with Match Ammo loaded with ball powder (WC846)

Did any lot of 7.62 M118 ammo with WC846 test under about 10 inches ES (1.9" mean radius) at 600 yards?

 

[riflewoman]

The specification reads 3.5 inches

3.5 Accuracy. - The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired at 600 yards, shall not exceed 3.5 inches.

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-C/download.php?spec=MIL-C-46934B.015852.PDF

Since they released it, I have to presume that it met that requirement.

 

[Bart B.]

Yes, that's the specs. Have you seen any of the test targets to know what the extreme spread is?

I talked with a Lake City arsenal guy about a bad lot of M118 match ammo the US Navy Marksmanship Unit got. He said the mean radius of their 270 shot test groups at 600 yards was typically about 5 times the mean radius. That's 17.5" for a 3.5" mean radius. It was established in the early 1900's based on all test shots from a barreled bolt action in a Mann rest would go into the 20" 5 ring of the 600 yard military "B" target.

The 1965 NM lot of M118 had a mean radius of 1.9", extreme spread was about 10". Rings in the below 600 yard target for that lot are 6" and 12".

However, most any lot of M118 rebulleted with Sierra 168 or 180 HPMK bullets from the same forming machine tested well under 6 inches at 600 from well rebuilt M1 and M14NM rifles tested in accuracy cradles. Arsenal M118 ammo had bullets from 3 or 4 machines.

 

[Bart B.]

3.5 inch mean radius produced near 18 inch extreme spread at 600 yards.

 

[riflewoman]

I shot HP in the 80s when they were issuing the 60-XX lots of 118 match and the “Special Ball”, so I know about the large extreme spreads. There were lots of 7s and 8s in those lots due to the poor bullets. But that was what was issued and you had to shoot it. Now if someone dropped into my truck a can of 12066 1966 i was a very happy camper indeed. I was advised to take all my residual 118 match ammo dump it loose into a large bucket and stir it with an oar to get a big random lot, but I never could bring myself to do that.

 

[Bart B.]

The USN got many ammo cans of 1966 M118 LC12064 that put 3 to 5 shots out of 20 in the 8 or 7 ring at 6 o'clock. Rebulleting it with 168's or 180's from Sierra didn't help much.

Reloading those primed cases with 44 grains of IMR4320 under Sierra 190's would test about 4 inches extreme spread at 600, MOA at 1000; in 7.62 Garands with .3078" or less groove diameter barrels.

 

[fatelvis]

I used it in 2 of my my Garands, and it functioned well and gave pretty good accuracy with 168 SMKs. Using between 46-47 grains in a HXP 60's vintage case, loaded to 3.24" OAL. Normal pressures, good functionality in both of my Garands, and holding +/- 2MOA out of Unmodified GI Garands.