IMR 4451 in the Dasher

[xswanted]

Searching the forum I don't see much on this powder and the Dasher.

I apologize if I missed it though.

I ran a couple loads of it through my Dasher today with good results.

35.5 yielded under 1/2" at 100 yards and average velocity just over 3000.

What are guys seeing with this poweder?

Seems like it's very close in burn rate to H4350

 

[shoot4fun]

What bullet?

 

[Cool Tool]

Yes what bullet an what barrel length are you running. PS very interesting

 

[xswanted]

Sorry.

105 Berger hunting VLD. Lapua brass and CCI 41 primers.

Why 41's?? I had been running Rem 7 1/2 but I was getting pierced primers with relatively low charges in Varget and IMR 4895.

So I figured try something with a harder cup.

I had one charge with this load give me a sticky bolt, and it was also the highest velocity of the 5 shots. I threw these charges as well with a Harrels powder measure.

I think trickling and measuring each load will help this load as well. Extreme spread was a bit high being right 40. However if I throw the one "hot" load out it'd only be 13.

It's a powder I will certainty revisit.

2.385 OAL I'm not sure where that is in relation to the rifling though.

26" Douglas.

 

[shoot4fun]

My experience with IMR4451 has been that it will do nothing that H4350 will not. In other words, whatever guys are getting with H4350 in 6 Dasher they will get with IMR4451. I've shot it in 7MM08 with heavier bullets and in 260 Rem. It meters like other extruded powders and my feeling is you're really compressing it to get that into a normal Dasher case. Are you using the Norma brass from Bullets.com or brass formed from Lapua 6BR?
Also, I would say from my experience and also what I've read from other tests that IMR4451 is not as forgiving of temperature changes as H4350 and you could very well run into pressure issues when the weather heats up a bit.

 

[KMart]

Sorry.

105 Berger hunting VLD. Lapua brass and CCI 41 primers.

Why 41's?? I had been running Rem 7 1/2 but I was getting pierced primers with relatively low charges in Varget and IMR 4895.

So I figured try something with a harder cup.

I had one charge with this load give me a sticky bolt, and it was also the highest velocity of the 5 shots. I threw these charges as well with a Harrels powder measure.

I think trickling and measuring each load will help this load as well. Extreme spread was a bit high being right 40. However if I throw the one "hot" load out it'd only be 13.

It's a powder I will certainty revisit.

2.385 OAL I'm not sure where that is in relation to the rifling though.

26" Douglas.

I had a similar problem, in my dasher, with pierced 7 1/2 primers but with H4350. Also with 105 VLDH. It turned out to be a slow building carbon ring. Problem showed itself after fire forming some hydroformed Lapua brass.

 

[xswanted]

My experience with IMR4451 has been that it will do nothing that H4350 will not. In other words, whatever guys are getting with H4350 in 6 Dasher they will get with IMR4451. I've shot it in 7MM08 with heavier bullets and in 260 Rem. It meters like other extruded powders and my feeling is you're really compressing it to get that into a normal Dasher case. Are you using the Norma brass from Bullets.com or brass formed from Lapua 6BR?
Also, I would say from my experience and also what I've read from other tests that IMR4451 is not as forgiving of temperature changes as H4350 and you could very well run into pressure issues when the weather heats up a bit.

It's a compressed load for sure but no more than 36 or more grains of H4350 I'd guess. I know I don't have to use a drop tube to get it in there.

These are lapua cases fireformed to the Dasher.

I haven't used this powder in a variety of temps but it was designed to be stable over a wide variety of weather. It seems like most powders have variations on them when temps are extreme though. I've found very few that will hold velocities on the extreme ends of the spectrum.

 

[shoot4fun]

I used Alliant 2000-MR at the 1000 yard nationals last year. It is in the H4350 burn rate but a spherical powder so it doesn't take up near the volume. In testing later I was able to get the 105 Hybrid to 3186 FPS in a 28" 5R. There were zero signs of trouble and I'm sure I could find even more speed. It is rather harsh on the throat though.

 

[tdogg]

I worked up to 35 gr with lapua brass and 105 Amax bullets. No signs of pressure but it was compressed. Not great accuracy either so I didn't continue.

Cheers,
Toby

 

[xswanted]

I worked up to 35 gr with lapua brass and 105 Amax bullets. No signs of pressure but it was compressed. Not great accuracy either so I didn't continue.

Cheers,
Toby

That's what I ended up finding.

Good velocity and good SD but poor accuracy.

Switched to IMR 4350 and found a node at 35.6 grains that performs very well.

 

[rkittine]

Is IMR 4451 the new Enduron replacement for IMR 4350?

 

[JRS]

Rick Jensen found it to be equal to H4350, in every respect. You can read his findings in the Daily Bulletin dated Feb. 2015

 

[xswanted]

Rick Jensen found it to be equal to H4350, in every respect. You can read his findings in the Daily Bulletin dated Feb. 2015

I'll have to look at that article.

I was very impressed with velocity and consistency of that velocity but it just didn't group well.

I got a sticky bolt lift just north of 35.8 grains.

35.5 ran well but like I said didn't perform accuracy wise. One day it shot just under a half at 100 the next two days out it shot in the 3/4" range.

On the flip side IMR 4350 shot sub 3/8" at 100 and just under a half at 200. I shot from 200-717 last night and was pleased with the first range day with that load.

 

[xswanted]

Is IMR 4351 the new Enduron replacement for IMR 4350?

Is there a 4351 now as well?

 

[shoot4fun]

"Is IMR 4351 the new Enduron replacement for IMR 4350?"

Is there a 4351 now as well?

No. I think that was a typo.

 

[nakneker]

The best test I've seen with IMR 4451 vs H4350 was on PBR (Precision rifle blog). It showed that the Enduron powders are good but that H4350 was markably less sensitive to temperature variation. It's a good read.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/

 

[6MMsteve]

4320 shoots well in my dasher 33.9 in the .1s at 100 but when it got warm outside I had sticky bolt with 105 hybirds I just lucked across this load

 

[6MMsteve]

I will try the 4451 in my dasher, it won't shoot in my 260AI at all

 

[xswanted]

The best test I've seen with IMR 4451 vs H4350 was on PBR (Precision rifle blog). It showed that the Enduron powders are good but that H4350 was markably less sensitive to temperature variation. It's a good read.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/

It'd be interesting to run the test again with less extreme temps.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be similar results but H4350 and the like powders have a cult following.

I live in ND and hunt coyotes through the winter. Temp sensitivity in powders is so throng I've personally spent a lot of time testing and what I've found, is very few powders will remain consistent across extremes (even wider temp range than this test has) and many powders people claim are temp sensitive aren't really all that sensitive.

I've shot R17 from -14 to 65 degrees and seem only ~25 fps shift in velocity. And that's supposed to be a temp sensitive powder according to the interweb.


I use H414 in a 220 swift in the winter and also in the summer with no problems and only slight variation in velocity.

I think the key is to try what a guy can in his setups and at different temps and see what works and doesn't work in a given setup.

And hopefully not leave your ammo on the dash right before you go shoot.

 

[pmg]

xs, have you hunted coyotes with the dasher yet? I was wondering what the results were as far as feeding etc. I know I get a little antsy flinging lapua brass out into the weeds/snow.