Improving Celestrom Ultima spotting scopes

[normmatzen]

A while back I asked if anyone knew where I could get an improved eyepiece for my Ultima 80 spotting scope.

I have found out from as close to the horse's mouth as is realistic!

Any one interested? If so I will tell the story.

 

[CharlieNC]

Yes. Mine is ok but would like better clarity

 

[tazzman]

Norm,

Please tell us your story!

Phil Fortin aka tazzman

 

[normmatzen]

My Story, and I'm sticking to it!

I bought a Celestron Ultima 80 spotting scope a number of years ago when I started shooting long range BR. I haven't been too impressed with the lack of ability to see bullet holes at 300yd and beyond. I have looked through really expensive scopes with not a real dramatic improvement so I figured I get what I got!

Now, I want to use the scope for monitoring the mirage for F Class, but I would like an eyepiece with more eye relief and fixed power at around 30X or so.

Of course, I looked into Celestron for accessory eyepieces with no success. I checked out some information from this forum and heard that Baader eyepieces work on Ultima.
So, I called the Celestron Tech number. Total waste of time! First they told me there was no other eyepiece that fit Ultima due to its strange mounting. I also found out that my college physics prepared me better for understanding optics than the knowledge of the Celeston factory expert! I think Celestron is more of a marketing company than an optics design company.

So, I contacted Bader Planitarium in Germany. Not only, it turns out, is Baader the German distributor for Celestron but they also understand and design optics! They have info for adapting their eyepieces to both Zeiss and Celestron spotting scopes.

Turns out, they make a Baader Hyperian zoom eyepiece that does work on the Celestron, but it is 289 bucks!

But, for a $34 adapter, the NX4/ETX adapter # 295 8500A, and a $88 Classic Ortho eyepiece from 6mm, 10mm and 18mm. They make a 5mm and a 32 mm but the eye relief is short on the 5mm and the 32mm does not fit. I will be trying the 18mm as the overall magnification will be about 30X and the eye relief is longest of the eyepieces that fit.

To assemble, unscrew the standard eyepiece where it screws on the main body. Screw on the Baader adapter then unscrew the 1.25" adapter from the Classic Ortho and screw the eyepiece to the filter holder of the 2958500A adapter. You can then use the funny rubber eye guard or remove it.

The opinion of the guys at Baader is that Celestron and some other inexpensive brands, has pretty decent optics in the main part of the scope and it is the eyepiece that separates the men from the boys! The relatively big lenses in the body are way easier to make good than the eyepiece lenses. In addition, good zoom eyepieces need a bunch of lenses all properly coated, designed, polished and assembled to give good performance. Many "popular priced" scopes use plastic lenses in the eyepieces! As well as plastic bodies.

The "Classic Ortho" eyepiece is somewhat a copy of the traditional Ortho Baader made a few years ago. The new classic is actually an improvement.
I haven't received my parts yet so I haven't tried it but I did find a couple folks on the web that did and with good results. They all marveled at the help Baader gave. I found no one that had tried this on an Ultima 100, but one optics firm that tried the adapter as well as Baader thinks this will work on the 100 as well.

Good luck.

 

[CharlieNC]

Good info Norm; keep us posted with an update once you can compare the optical quality from your adaptation.

 

[normmatzen]

By the way, for those of you with tons of money to spend, the actual zoom eyepiece from Baader for the Ultima is;

Baader Planetarium Mark III Hyperion Click Stop Zoom 8 - 24 mm

And, I think list price is $289.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

Any new info on this subject???

 

[normmatzen]

Not yet!

I have the adapter, but haven't sprung for the Classic Ortho yet.

 

[normmatzen]

Well, I finally got my Baader Classic Ortho 18mm eyepiece!

It went together just as the fellow from Baader said it would. The scope, now a single focal length, seems to be about 20X. This is what I was hoping for and what one would expect for a 6mm high end of the zoom giving 60X. I tried yesterday using it at 200 yd to tune my tuner. I didn't need it for the tuning, but I tried to monitor the mirage.
I don't know if it is real or my imagination, but the mirage at 2/3 the shooting range seemed to be very clear and obvious and I could estimate slight wind changes. At least with my poor mirage reading skills. I am happy.

 

[normmatzen]

An add on to my last post.


Today I shot in a F Class 1000 yd practice match (And won the Bench group). I used my new "Baadestron" spotting scope. I was VERY pleased, the focus was spot on and sharp at 2/3 the range I was shooting and I could much more easily see the mirage.
I also asked a guy with a much better scope than mine and also experience with the real expensive scopes. He thought the clarity was really good but he liked more power (I chose the 18mm Classic Ortho to hold power at about 20X). I also tried his scope and I prefer my "new" one.
I'm a happy Baader customer!

 

[sfldiver]

Thanks for the info about enhancing the Celestron Scope. I like the options you suggest, but my knowledge of optics is limited, so I'm hoping you can clear things up for me.

I have a Celestron Ultima 80. I typically shoot at 100 yards, but occasionally (a few times a year) travel to a range that has 600 - 1000yds available. When I've taken my Celestron with me, I've been underwhelmed by it's performance when trying to see bullet holes at even 300yd, unless I use splatter targets. And even then, I can see just as well, if not better, with my Vortex PST 6-24x50 riflescope. When I've tried to spot holes at 600yds, I have not been very successful.

If I spend the $ and buy the Baader Planetarium Mark III Hyperion Click Stop Zoom 8 - 24 mm you recommend, which I'm not opposed to doing if I'm going to reap real benefits, what kind of benefits will I get? Will I see the bullet holes clearly at 300? 600? Just trying to make sure I fully understand the benefits of spending the $289 on the eyepiece.

Adrian

 

[sfldiver]

After doing additional research on multiple astro and birdwatching forums, as Norm indicated, upgrading Celestron spotting scopes with Baader eyepieces seems to be the way to go to improve performance. It appears it dramatically improves image sharpness, and color. In my mind, I still have questions regarding the degree of image improvement and benefit achieved when viewing bullet holes at distance at the range.

However, as a result of the information Norm provided (thanks Norm!) and everything I've read online, I went ahead and ordered the Baader Hyperion Mark III Clickstop Zoom Eyepiece 8-24mm. With shipping, I ended up paying approx. $300.

My goal is to enhance my spotting scopes performance to that of a more expensive scope, without having to dish out high quality scope dollars.

I'm hoping to receive it by the end of the week, so I can try it at a 300yd range I'm hoping to visit this weekend. I'm also hoping to ultimately connect the spotting scope to my Canon dslr camera. I'll post my feedback on the upgrade once I have a chance to give it a proper field test, and if the camera thing works, I'll even try to post some before and after pics.

Adrian

 

[Travelor]

I guess I must be half blind, but my Celestron Ultima 80 is much sharper that any spotting scopes I have compared it to other than the Kowa 883 with costs way too much for me.

It certainly is better than my Kowa 60mm with a 25x long eye relief eyepiece.

 

[sfldiver]

Thanks for the information Travelor. I have not had the benefit of looking through other spotting scopes and comparing them to mine. 99% of all the shooting I do is at the 100yd range, so I haven't been using my Celestron too often.

However, since I occasionally do venture out to a range with 600+ yds, and I ultimately plan on completing in FTR type events in the 600yd range, I figured it wouldn't hurt to enhance the performance of my spotting scope.

I can't imagine the Baader eyepiece will hurt the performance of the spotting scope, but the real question is how much will the $300 eyepiece benefit the $180 Celestron Ultima 80? I guess I'll know by this weekend - I'll keep everyone posted!

Adrian

 

[normmatzen]

As an aside,

I have looked through some more expensive scopes at 600 to 1000 yds and I really don't see any that can see 6mm holes at those ranges with some target colors. Quite often the mirage brings even the super expensive to their knees! My N-F 12-42 bench rest scope and my Sightron SIII 10-50 scope both do as well as my 80 mm Celestron at 60 power.
All I know for sure is that my Celestron at 20X using the Baader Classic Ortho 18mm beats the heck out of the cheapo eyepiece Celestron put on the scope! Plus, the guy at Baader did tell me that even cheaper scopes have pretty good main optics, it is the eyepiece that limits them. Many inexpensive scopes use one or two lenses and often the lenses are plastic as is the eyepiece body. As an example, I believe the Baader $300 zoom for the Celestron uses 9 or more lenses!

 

[sfldiver]

Thanks for the additional info - that sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to testing out the new eyepiece this weekend. I'll make sure to share my results on this thread for everyone's benefit.

Adrian

 

[sfldiver]

Ok, I received my Baader Hyperion Mark III Clickstop 8 - 24mm Eyepiece Thursday evening. It installed pretty easily on the Celestron Ultima 80. I've done a bit of experimentation browsing off into the distance around my neighborhood, and I've compared it to the Celestron's original eyepiece. At 100yds, there didn't appear to be too much difference. At 200yds, the I began to see more detail and greater color. At 300yds, the sharpness of the lens and the color and detail was far superior when looking through the Baader eyepiece. I've also done some viewing at greater distances in the area of 1000yds plus and I'm very happy with the amount of detail I see. I even did some moon watching, and the view was quite impressive, so much so, that I'm in the process of acquiring the adapters I need to connect my Canon EOS 60d Camera to it.

As some have commented within this thread, I don't anticipate seeing bullet holes on standard paper at distances over 300 yds, but I'm pretty confident the picture will be sharper, and certainly be helpful when evaluating mirages, like Norm mentioned. I did make it out to my local 100yd range today, and the bullet holes at that distance were very visible, even on the black part of the non-splatter target.

Once I eventually make it out to a longer distance range, I'll keep everyone posted as to my experience with bullet holes at distance.

Attached are a few pics of the original and upgraded eyepieces.



Adrian

 

[racesnake]

Do you know if the mk3 eyepiece will work with the celestron regal 65 HD?

 

[ericbc7]

Hi Adrian, did you need any adapters or parts to use the Baader eyepiece with your celestron ultima 80?

 

[sfldiver]

Do you know if the mk3 eyepiece will work with the celestron regal 65 HD?

Racesnake, it appears the Celestron Regal 65 comes with a 1.25" eyepiece, so I believe it will fit. However, the Regal line is a superior spotting scope than the Ultima line, and appears to already come with a superior eyepiece. I couldn't begin to tell you whether the Baader eyepiece is superior to the Regal eyepiece, and I'd hate to suggest that you upgrade, only to find out that you may not be getting as much benefit as you'd like for your $300 investment.

My suggestion would be to either contact Baader directly, as I believe Norm did; alternatively, I'd try asking the question on birdforum.net. I did lots of research on that forum before upgrading mine, as the bird watching crowd appear to be the experts at upgrading eyepieces on spotting scopes, because these scopes are their primary tool for bird watching and they've been doing it for years.

Good luck to you!

Adrian