I want to learn about rifle actions

[BaconFat]

I want to build a rifle in 6.5x47, 6.5x55 or a 6.5SLR. So my number problem is what action to use and why. I see actions offered in the B/S/T forum but I don't know enough

about what I need to try and buy one. Do I want to use a factory Savage or Remington or buy a custom action from BAT, Kelby or some other maker. I do realize that

custom actions are superior to factory actions. My question does not concern the cost of obtaining an action, but the mechanical quality and function of one action compared

to another. I understand the difference between long and short actions and mostly the difference in the bolt face configurations. I know there's more learn about these

actions, but I don't know where to find it. I've done some Googling and have found some information in piece meal fashion. If that's the best way to find out what I need to

know, then at least I'm on the right track. In a nut shell you could say, "I don't know what I don't know." I guess what I need is a "Rifle Actions for Dummies" book.


Thanks in advance for your help and guidance.

 

[Erik Cortina]

First of all, forget Savage as they have the worst trigger system than any of the others you mentioned.

The Remington 700 makes a good action for a custom build, but we need to know the intended purpose of your build to be able to help you the most. If money is not too much of an object, get a custom action. The action is one of the cheapest parts for the life of the build (you only have to buy it once).

Kelbly makes actions for all types of disciplines. The Atlas is a great action for the money and would work great for a hunting or tactical build.
For Competition, I would use a Stolle Panda or a BAT.

Tell us more about your build and we can go from there.

 

[watercam]

As ususal Erik's advise is gold. If you are interested in some kind of competitive shooting (benchrest, High Power, Tactical, etc.) consider attending a match and seeing what everyone else is using. Competitive shooters are very generous with their experience and knowledge and will answer any questions.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Materials-
Stainless- corrosion resistance, galls easier then chromeoly, meloniting cures the galling issue but turns the action black.
Chromeoly- needs a coating to prevent rust, generally more durable than bare stainless.
Aluminum- these actions have steel inserts for the barrel threads, lugs, and extraction cam, these are my favorite, makes hitting you weight limit easier. More than strong enough for a rifle action.

Bolts-
Bolt clearance does not have any effect on accuracy that I have found, heard of, read, ect.
Timing is the point the cocking piece picks up the top lever of the trigger. From that point you dont want the firing pin to move, no cock on close, and no further decocking, while maintaining the recommended firing pin fall. That gives you a smooth bolt close. Handle timing is the position of the handle on the bolt. You want very little clearance between the handle and the back of the action to make full use of the extraction cam. That combined with the angles of the extraction cam give you a smooth opening.

Ports-
Right port- I like a right port for prone, it allows me to feed the gun with out moving my support arm.
Left port- nice on the bench, lets you run much quicker as you cycle the bolt with you right hand and feed with the left.
Dual port- best of both worlds, feed on the left, ejects on the right. Fastest action for bench shooting.

These are just my opinions and others may have different experiences.
Alex

 

[22BRGUY]

Big welcome to the site. As has already been stated by the others here, you will find the finest people willing to help and share their great expertise and experience.
Of the 3 cartridges you mentioned, the overall length of the chosen cartridge will have an influence on which action you want to choose. The 6.5x47 is a shorter cartridge than the 6.5SLR or 6.5x55 and therefore the length of the loading/ejection ports for the latter 2 would need to be longer on a custom action for best functioning.
Best Wishes

 

[BaconFat]

The purpose of my build is mostly benchrest shooting although I'm also thinking of using it for a backup varmint rifle when the winds or distance take my 20VT out of the

picture. I don't see any competition shooting on the horizon although my gun club does have a winter benchrest league, so maybe. I guess my number one purpose is just

the pure pleasure of shooting. I'm also thinking I want to try a right bolt dual port which also means I want a single shot receiver.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Kelbly F-Class Panda would be great for your build. I agree with zfast, get a TG ejector for it.
http://www.kelbly.com/actions.html

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

If it doesn't have to be new:

http://theshooterscorner.com/

You can pick up a used BR rifle, ready to shoot, for considerably less than the cost of just the action and stock purchased new. I advise buying something that fits in a recognized competitive class -- heavy varmint (100-300yd BR), light gun (600-1000yd BR), F-class, etc. A rifle that conforms to the rules of a popular game holds its value a lot better, and lets you compete if you wish.

Buying used also leaves extra $$ for rests, loading gear, components, ...

For any of the BR games you might want to reconsider your choice of cartridge. Start with what the winners are shooting -- they have good reasons for choosing the cartridge that they did.

If your winter BR league is 300yd or less, you'd be swimming upstream to start with anything but a 6PPC for group shooting or 30BR for score shooting.

For the long-range varmint work, you can always screw on a different barrel and go hunting.

 

[M14AMU]

M700

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

A mod 700 or a40x can be as good as a custom, however the cost of the work to get to that point will put you in the same price range, but without the "Cool Factor"!! Stiller also make very good actions. I have 2 Bats, 2 FClass pandas,a McMillian Tubb, a Stiller and a custom Remington and they are all great actions. Don't really know of any well known custom that is problematic . JVON

 

[BaconFat]

If it doesn't have to be new:

http://theshooterscorner.com/

You can pick up a used BR rifle, ready to shoot, for considerably less than the cost of just the action and stock purchased new. I advise buying something that fits in a recognized competitive class -- heavy varmint (100-300yd BR), light gun (600-1000yd BR), F-class, etc. A rifle that conforms to the rules of a popular game holds its value a lot better, and lets you compete if you wish.

Buying used also leaves extra $$ for rests, loading gear, components, ...

For any of the BR games you might want to reconsider your choice of cartridge. Start with what the winners are shooting -- they have good reasons for choosing the cartridge that they did.

If your winter BR league is 300yd or less, you'd be swimming upstream to start with anything but a 6PPC for group shooting or 30BR for score shooting.

For the long-range varmint work, you can always screw on a different barrel and go hunting.

This is a very good suggestion. I keep forgetting about this guy and I live close enough to pay a personal visit.


But on to my original question, which I think I didn't do a very good job of explaining what I want to know. Let's say you're going to build a 6.5SLR for long range target

shooting and want to use a BAT action. How do you know, out of the 13 or so actions BAT offers, which one would be the best one for your objective? Or what if you wanted

to use a Kelbly action instead. How would you know to select a F-class Panda action instead of a Kodiak action. I'm not looking for suggestions on what action I should get,

but instead I'm looking for the knowledge you used to come up with that suggestion. I'm glad I'm getting suggestions, because I can take that and try to figure out why that

suggestion was made.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

If it doesn't have to be new:

http://theshooterscorner.com/

You can pick up a used BR rifle, ready to shoot, for considerably less than the cost of just the action and stock purchased new. I advise buying something that fits in a recognized competitive class -- heavy varmint (100-300yd BR), light gun (600-1000yd BR), F-class, etc. A rifle that conforms to the rules of a popular game holds its value a lot better, and lets you compete if you wish.

Buying used also leaves extra $$ for rests, loading gear, components, ...

For any of the BR games you might want to reconsider your choice of cartridge. Start with what the winners are shooting -- they have good reasons for choosing the cartridge that they did.

If your winter BR league is 300yd or less, you'd be swimming upstream to start with anything but a 6PPC for group shooting or 30BR for score shooting.

For the long-range varmint work, you can always screw on a different barrel and go hunting.

This is a very good suggestion. I keep forgetting about this guy and I live close enough to pay a personal visit.

You are a lucky shooter. Drop by Bob's shop and he will set you on the right path for a fair price.

But on to my original question, which I think I didn't do a very good job of explaining what I want to know. Let's say you're going to build a 6.5SLR for long range target shooting and want to use a BAT action. How do you know, out of the 13 or so actions BAT offers, which one would be the best one for your objective?

Look at the equipment list from a competition of the general sort in which you're interested, and see what the winners are using. Or just ask Bob.

Or what if you wanted to use a Kelbly action instead. How would you know to select a F-class Panda action instead of a Kodiak action.

The regular Panda has been the basis of a lot of great light varmint (LV) and heavy varmint (HV) short-range (100-300yd) benchrest (BR) rifles. The F-class Panda has a recoil lug and is often ordered with a sloped scope rail for long range shooting with heavier-recoiling rifles. The Kodiak has a smaller footprint than the Panda and is intended for use in hunter class BR, which has rules about action diameter, magazine cut, scope power, case size, etc.

I'm not looking for suggestions on what action I should get, but instead I'm looking for the knowledge you used to come up with that suggestion. I'm glad I'm getting suggestions, because I can take that and try to figure out why that suggestion was made.

You live in a good area for BR -- go to a tournament and ask questions (when shooters don't look too busy to talk). Or just ask Bob while he's handing your purchases across the counter.

There are a few books well worth reading (in descending order):

The Book of Rifle Accuracy by Tony Boyer
Extreme Rifle Accuracy by Mike Ratigan
The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy by Glenn Newick

Your first precision rifle won't be your last, so buy a good used one to teach you to make good ammo and read the wind, then (if you want to) sell it for about the same amount you paid, and build your dream rifle -- or just buy some more barrels for your "starter" rifle.

 

[6BRinNZ]

If money isn't a worry go custom. If you are looking at Kelblys - they have a lot of information about the specifications and purpose on their web site. You can get hung up on details like pinned vs integral recoil lugs, tenon length etc etc but at the end of the day a lot of that comes down to personal preference based on experience. You can get into discussions about 3 lug vs 2 lug but at the end of the day at this stage it probably doesn't matter too much....just do what is common for the discipline at this point.

IMO there is one rule that will always stay true - what you are using today won't be what you are using tomorrow.

So buy custom (if money is no worries) and look at the basics i.e. long action vs short, bolt face and ports. Look at what others are doing for that discipline and follow suite. Use that to build experience and then sweat the small details for the next build

PS have a look at the Barnard actions as well. Not common for BR but certainly world class.

 

[Pres100]

When considering a used action, is there a threshold for the number of times an action can be rebarreled before it is considered "undesirable" in terms of competitiveness? In some of the for sale threads you sometimes see this question and hear of people who rebarrel very often.

What other pertinent questions should be asked (other than configuration) when considering used and why? This is a great learning topic.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Actions don't really wear out if properly maintained. Potential problem areas are galling of the lugs or threads, or damage by scope base screws. It's also possible for custom actions to be out of square/true, although it's never happened to me.