How well does the RCBS Chargemaster throw Varget?

[dreever]

As a 6BR shooter who's considering asking Mrs. Santa Claus for a Chargemaster for Christmas my question is how accurate does it throw 30-31 grains of Varget?

Secondly, you guys that have them are the problems resolved?

Lastly, where to buy one to be assured of getting the latest and greatest, with all the up grades, and hopefully problem free model?

Thanks,

Danny

 

[Hipshot]

I've had a Chargemaster for about 3 months and never experienced a problem. Last night I threw 50 charges of Varget, 30 gr, and the weight as displayed was fine. One charge indicated as .1 over but I know why. As can happen with trickling, for the last .1 the rotation of the dispenser was such that .2 landed in the pan.

I have found the scale to be as accurate as my older RCBS electronic scale and equal to or better than my beam scale. What you see is what you get.

I do make a habit of turning on the unit about 10 minutes or more before I plan on using it,probably just an old habit and not necessary) and I check calibration,I have small calibration weights) every 30-50 operations.

So far I have been extremely pleased with the accuracy, speed and consistency of the Chargemaster. I bought mine off the shelf at a local gun shop/reloading store.

 

[Travelor]

Do a search here, www.benchrest.com, and in the other forums for "ChargeMaster" and "Charge Master" as there is MUCH written on this.

I'm on my 3rd ChargeMaster and it throws H4895,very similar granulation to Varget) 25.5 charges to on or .1 over consistently. There seems to be at least 3 versions of the software that runs the machine and the earlier versions were poorly set up but can be modified.

I just love mine even with this being the 3rd machine as it truly speed up the charging sequence. Remember to take the pan off and then place it back on the machine after each cycle to confirm the weight.

George

 

[Caduceus]

Maybe I'm the exception here but I've got a Chargemaster and I've loaded approximately 200 rounds with Varget, 50 with H4350 and 200 with Benchmark into 6BR, 6.5/284 and 223 respectively and I've NEVER, yes, that's right NEVER had a single charge read anything other than exactly what I dialled up.

I know that the scale itself may not be perfect but I have no way to cross check that. However, if you trust the scale, then my dispenser will ALWAYS give me what I have asked for. This includes removing the pan, letting it settle out at -68.8grn and then replacing the pan to re-weigh it again. I don't do that anymore because I'm confinced it's pretty darn reliable.

Maybe I just got a good one?

 

[JamesnTN]

Danny,

I wouldn't trust it if you plan on shooting long range I have one and tested it to my Denver Instrument scale and the actual weight is embarrassing to say the least. Mine will consistently throw charges over and i have to set it under my desired weight to get it to get close and then I adjust to my desired weight on my lab scales. The readout on the charge master will show what it should be but the actual weight is off and as much at times as .3 grns.
I'm pasting my findings here. First colum of numbers is what the RCBS scale showed weighed second colum is actual weight.

Varget

RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
29.0 grn

Reading Actual

Charge #1 29.0 29.29
Charge #2 29.0 29.10
Charge #3 29.0 29.07
Charge #4 29.0 29.08
Charge #5 29.0 29.06
Charge #6 29.0 29.00
Charge #7 29.0 28.99
Charge #8 29.0 29.26
Charge #9 29.0 29.47
Charge #10 29.0 29.11
Charge #11 29.0 29.18
Charge #12 29.0 29.09
Charge #13 29.0 29.09
Charge #14 29.0 29.10
Charge #15 29.0 29.09
Charge #16 29.0 29.06
Charge #17 29.0 29.14
Charge #18 29.0 28.99
Charge #19 29.0 29.03
Charge #20 29.0 29.08

Varget

RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
24.0 grn

Reading Actual

Charge #1 24.0 24.08
Charge #2 24.0 24.06
Charge #3 24.0 24.04
Charge #4 24.0 24.07
Charge #5 24.0 24.10
Charge #6 24.0 24.06
Charge #7 24.0 24.04
Charge #8 24.0 24.13
Charge #9 24.0 23.99
Charge #10 24.0 23.99
Charge #11 24.0 24.03
Charge #12 24.0 24.00
Charge #13 24.0 24.06
Charge #14 24.0 24.06
Charge #15 24.0 23.99
Charge #16 24.0 24.02
Charge #17 24.0 24.19
Charge #18 24.0 24.06
Charge #19 24.0 24.02
Charge #20 24.0 24.15

H-4350

RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
36.0 grn

Reading Actual

Charge #1 36.0 36.07
Charge #2 36.0 36.05
Charge #3 36.0 35.98
Charge #4 36.0 36.03
Charge #5 36.0 36.12
Charge #6 36.0 36.03
Charge #7 36.1 36.13
Charge #8 36.0 35.99
Charge #9 36.0 35.97
Charge #10 36.0 36.01
Charge #11 36.0 36.00
Charge #12 36.0 36.17
Charge #13 36.0 35.95
Charge #14 36.0 36.12
Charge #15 36.0 36.00
Charge #16 36.0 35.98
Charge #17 36.0 35.92
Charge #18 36.0 36.13
Charge #19 36.0 36.10
Charge #20 36.0 35.99

 

[Silverfox]

I have had errors in charge weights with my ChargeMaster 1500. Lately, it has been throwing charges that are .2 of a grain over the reading on the digital readout. I don't have a super-accurate scale like James in TN has to check, but I do use my RCBS 10-10 balance beam scale to check charges.

I have contacted RCBS and they said they are sending a new ChargeMaster to me. They said that back in September and I didn't receive one and they said the same thing the beginning of this week. Maybe it is like the old saying, "The check is in the mail." I did have the technician run through the "magic" keypad settings to get the ChargeMaster to slow down a wee bit sooner in the trickling process. However, even now, the digital readout will hit the dialed in weight and it will still trickle in additional strands of powder.

I have found that I can take the pan with the powder charge in it off the machine, put it back on and it will still read the dialed in charge weight even though it is off by .2 of a grain. Even for prairie dog shooting and predator shooting I want to have more accurate powder charges than that. Hopefully, when the new machine comes, it will be more accurate. The guarantee is to within .1 of a grain, but many of my charges are off by .2 or so.

I do like to use the ChargeMaster to throw the charge slightly under now and then I hand trickle the charge up to the desired weight.

 

[SF340Driver]

The problem was described to me by Mr Legg as a delay in the communication from the scale to the despenser. Play with the stepdown weights a little to find what works for you scale. The steps Mr Legg gave me helped, but I increased the stepdowns a bit and I get and overcharge by 0.05 to 0.10g maybe 1 in 50. If you let the pan set for a couple of seconds after the load drops it will show the overload if there is one.

Greg

 

[mikecr]

Wish I had a scale accurate to 2 places. Was thinking of an Acculab VIC-123. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
http://balance.balances.com/scales/906

 

[Forum Boss]

Very nice post, Gunamonth--thanks for the contribution.

A couple things I want to add regarding the ChargeMaster,and Lyman, and Pact for that matter). First, RCBS has told us that the unit is sensitive to fore/aft balance. We've talked to a few guys who leveled the unit left to right, but they assumed their bench was flat fore and aft, when it was not. Second, getting good juice to the unit seems to help. If you can put a line conditioner in the circuit that seems to help.

Also, with any < $500 digital scale we recommend lifting the cup after the throw and placing it back down again. This is our procedure with a PACT scale and it does catch some situations where the scale reads target weight, but it hasn't "caught up to" the real weight.

Last point. Claimed +/- 0.1 grain resolution does not mean there is only a 0.1 grain range. Rather, if your target weight is 30.0 gr, then you should be getting something between 29.9 and 30.1 grains, a 0.2 gr range.

If you look at James' test results, the RCBS delivers this precision pretty well. With H4350, the ES was 0.2 grains. But it's that one charge in 20 that's off by 0.3 or even 0.4 that is the big problem, as happened in the Varget test. Still if you're at least 0.5 grains off max,always a good idea) you should be in the safe zone with most powders. If you're operating right at the max, you should probably cross-check your Charge-Master throws with a lab-quality digital scale, or a tuned 10-10 balance scale.

If you look at James' results for 24.0gr H4350, the consistency is actually pretty good:


H-4350
Reading RCBS | Reading Actual,Denver Instr.)

Charge #1 24.0 24.08
Charge #2 24.0 24.06
Charge #3 24.0 24.04
Charge #4 24.0 24.07
Charge #5 24.0 24.10
Charge #6 24.0 24.06
Charge #7 24.0 24.04
Charge #8 24.0 24.13 -- beyond spec by .03 gr,~1 kernel)
Charge #9 24.0 23.99
Charge #10 24.0 23.99
Charge #11 24.0 24.03
Charge #12 24.0 24.00
Charge #13 24.0 24.06
Charge #14 24.0 24.06
Charge #15 24.0 23.99
Charge #16 24.0 24.02
Charge #17 24.0 24.19 -- beyond spec by .09 gr,~3 kernels)
Charge #18 24.0 24.06
Charge #19 24.0 24.02
Charge #20 24.0 24.15 -- Beyond spec by .05 gr,2 kernels)

ES= 24.19 minus 23.99 = 0.2 grains

 

[Asa_Yam]

By the way, a gun that shoots 0.1" groups in the five ring is precise, not accurate. A gun and shooter that puts five rounds in 0.1" in the center of the X rings is accurate. An unfortunate mistake in nomenclature we've come to accept, well some of us at least.

Still not quite correct. But close.
- Five rounds into a .1" group in the 5 ring is precise;
- Five rounds in 4", all in the 9 ring is accurate;
- Five rounds in .1", all in the X ring is accurate AND precise.
:thumb:

 

[mikecr]

Thanks ASA
I think I'll pick one up. It's a really good price for that kind of accuracy...or precision...one of them.

When I recieve the scale, I'm going to sit down and do some real work on accurizing the Chargemaster. I suspect that tuning for given powder would make a significant difference, as ModSquad pointed out regarding H4350. Program parameters might be entered for each powder. I don't know. So far my Potentiometer mod, crude as it seems, has worked better than program changes for me.
I might revise it to a 10position switch if tuning for powder turns out valid. I think I have every powder type in current existence, so I should be able to nail it.

I wouldn't bother accept I really like the Chargemaster. It's worth it.

 

[Caduceus]

I believe that the folks who have a great deal of faith in the Chargemaster "because the scale always says 30.4 grains" are missing the point here. As my experience and that of James Phillips show there's a big difference between it always "says" 30.4 and it really "is" 30.4,precision vs accuracy).

Perhaps this was in response to my post but I don't think I was missing the point. I understand the difference between precision and accuracy as well as the other points you raised. It was just that I have formed the impression that people had scales which were actually indicating other than what was the pre-set weight and that was what they were complaining about. Clearly that is not the case. I now see that your grievance is with the true accuracy of those readings.

An excellent post, thanks.

 

[shcal]

I'm going to throw a curve ball hear. I have a Harrell's Culver style bench rest powder measure, a Lyman 1200 electronic measure, a Quick Measure by Johnson Design Specialties and an old Redding balance beam scale. Needless to say the Redding balance beam is the most accurate but also the least efficient way to measure and load. I use the balance beam to verify load weights.

Since I varmint shoot and don't shoot on paper I need to load a lot of ammo at a time. Since I also shoot at long distance at little targets I need consistent loads.

I have found through trial and error that the quickest most accurate way to load powders such as Varget and H-4350 is with the Johnson Design Specialties Quick Measure with loads periodically checked with the Redding balance beam scale.

I find that the Quick Measure is usually accurate to within .05gr to .1 gr. Not bad for a fast loading scale.

If you would like to check this scale out with its unique dispensing system here's the web site.

http://www.quick-measure.com/

shcal

 

[Travelor]

Well guys, yesterday I loaded 20 cartridges with my ChargeMaster using Varget. The desired charge was 43.3 grains for a 308 Winchester. The charges were anywhere from .1 to .3 grains over,checked by use of both the ChargeMaster and a Dillon electronic scale) in 16 of the 20 charges thrown. I have also noticed that the machine was progressively reporting the empty pan weight was decreasing during the loading sessions. This is the third ChargeMaster I have owned.

I called RCBS and spoke with Mr. Don Legg again. He told me that there is a new electronics board being installed int he current ChargeMasters and is sending me my 4th, count 'em 4, ChargeMaster.

Can't say I am not persistent.

George