How to set a body die to just bump the sholder?

[encoreguy]

I am new to reloading and I want to use a body die to just bump the shoulder and use my lee collet dies for the neck. How do I adjust a body die to just bump the shoulder and leave the rest of the fire formed case alone?

 

[CatShooter]

I am new to reloading and I want to use a body die to just bump the shoulder and use my lee collet dies for the neck. How do I adjust a body die to just bump the shoulder and leave the rest of the fire formed case alone?

You can't.

The "Body die" is a FL die without the neck sizing section - by the time that the case is in the die far enough to touch the shoulder, you have already sized the body.

If properly adjusted, it doesn't make any difference, as it is the shoulder cone and neck that position the round and case in line with the axis.

Neil Jones makes custom dies and can make you a bump die that will only touch the shoulder, but at nearly $200, I doubt that it is worth it.



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[varmintslayer]

I would think you need a Redding FL bushing sizing die.
,You can go to reddings website and they have instructions on how to find out which bushings you need.)
Take one piece of fired brass, remove the primer,measuring your case with a primer installed can give inaccurate readings)and take an accurate measurment,you can use a comparator gage like Stoneypoints)from the shoulder to the case head. Take your Redding bushing die and remove the expander ball. Raise the shell holder in your press until it touches the bottom of the die them back it of one quarter turn.
Using the brass you accurately measured with your comparator, size the brass. If the shoulder didn't move, screw the die in 1/16 of a turn and try it again . Ultimately you would like to bump the shoulder back 1-2 thou.

After you get the die set, lock it in place.

 

[BoydAllen]

Using the feel method to set shoulder setback assumes a correct relationship between die and chamber that may not be the case. Use a gage, and if you do not like the bolt lift that you get with a measured .001 - .002 shoulder bump,as compared with a fully fire formed case,2-3 full pressure firings)that has been measures after removing the primer)then you need another die. Any further adjustment will cause the shoulder to be bumped back too far, eventually leading to a case head separation.

 

[CatShooter]

I would think you need a Redding FL bushing sizing die. Using the brass you accurately measured with your comparator, size the brass. If the shoulder didn't move, screw the die in 1/16 of a turn and try it again . Ultimately you would like to bump the shoulder back 1-2 thou.

After you get the die set, lock it in place.

Turning the die 1/16th of an inch will be very crude - it will equal 5 thousandths for each 1/16"... in order to control it to 1 or 2 thou, you need to make much smaller adjustments.

Redding makes a special set of shell holders just for this purpose, and they are stepped in 0.002" increments.


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[alf]

Better, cheaper, and easier.

Get a set of Skip's die shims from Sinclairs.

 

[CatShooter]

Better, cheaper, and easier.

Get a set of Skip's die shims from Sinclairs.

Actually, not easier - they will not control the amount of headspace accurately because press spring will not be the same for each case, so the amount of "bump" will not be the same...


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[CatShooter]

"... Sometimes you want to stick it in just a little deeper.

I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole


Me too - I made a bunch of "short" shell holders, one is -23 thou. Takes 10 minutes on a carbide lap.


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[memilanuk]

As painful as it may be I have to agree with Catshooter on this one... I used Redding Competition shellholders from the git-go, and later decided that maybe a set of Skip Otto die shims would be a better way to fly. I tried them... and had no end of fits trying to get consistent and repeatable headspace control as compared to the Redding shellholders - screw it down til it stops, done.

Unfortunately, I've migrated over to the dark side recently... a Forster Coax press :thumb: which I like immensely but I miss my Redding shellholders. Yes, I know it can be set up with 'conventional' shellholders - I ordered the adapter when I bought the press. But I hate not using the press the way it seems it was intended - with the automagic jaws installed. I got my dies adjusted, finally, but it was a PITA compared to the Redding way.

Monte

 

[Travelor]

Get the Stoney Point tools which measure the length from the base to the shoulder, you can set the body die to bump the shoulder back .001" which is the normally recommended "bump".

You measure a fired case to get the datum distance to bump shoulder back of the cases.

George

 

[CatShooter]

There is little point in buying a bunch of tools to make measurements. While being academically interesting, the measurements won't solve the problem.

You will still need the Redding Comp shell holders to make the change - and they can be used without any measurements at all.


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[varmintslayer]

I've read a lot of catshooters posts and he knows a lot more than I do. At least I know I was correct about the bushing die and expander ball.

I have a set of competition shell holders and while they work most of the time you still need to be able to accurately measure the case.
I think a set of measuring tools for reloading is a must, otherwise your just guessing right?

Of course this all depends on the demand your requiring from your loads.

 

[CatShooter]

I have a set of competition shell holders and while they work most of the time you still need to be able to accurately measure the case.

Why???

While it is nice to know the numbers,and I own the measuring tools). What difference does it make - if the bolt is closing more tightly than you like, then you only need to move the shoulder enuff so the bolt closes the way you like - who cares if the chamber datum line is 1.562" and the case datum is 1.566", and the die datum line is 1.560.

The fact that you know that "this case" is four thou longer than the chamber and six thou longer thant the bump die means nothing - because of spring back, you still need to pick,or make) a shell holder by trial.

Some guys don't want to spend $150 for a set of measuring tools to make one simple adjustment - and that's OK, especially when it's not necessary.

A lot of times, someone asks a simple question to solve a simple problem... and they get an answer that they need to buy a lotta "stuff" and measure a lotta things and then square the sum of the differences and ony adjust it when there is a full moon...

... when the solution is very simple, and this is one of the occasions that begs for a simple solution.

You set the Body die to hit the shell holder and cam over to spring the press.
You take the +10 shell holder and size a case - try it - still fits tight - try the +8, and so forth.

Takes 2 minutes and costs a whoppin' total of ~$35 for the shell holders.



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[memilanuk]

Why? Because some people like to know that sort of thing.

Why? Because occasionally sticky bolts can come from things *other* than needing to adjust your case headspace. A person can get themselves in trouble pushing the shoulder back too far trying to achieve easy bolt closure. For a new guy perhaps not as experienced as yourself, its probably easier to have a quantifiable number to refer to i.e. bump it back this much.

Why? Because the necessary don't cost $150,nice try). Assuming he already has a set of calipers,he better), they cost about $30, maybe $40 for a Hornady LnL,formerly Stoney Point) comparator body and insert. For a few dollars more, he can get a 5pc set of inserts which will cover almost any normal cartridge he's likely to encounter. Cheap insurance, in my book. Not as cheap as 'free', granted, but I like to have a number to refer to. Always have :thumb:

Not saying your way doesn't work... just I prefer a different route.

Cheers,

Monte

 

[alf]

I'll stick to the shims, thank you.
I've never seen, nor had any problems using them.
By using too much or too little lube on your cases, will show more headspace variance than your "press spring" will.
Shell holders are now $37.50 at Sinclairs. Per set. So I'll need 223,PPC,308, and the magnum sizes. And $2.95 each for the case to keep them in.
Thanks anyway, I'll use the shims for $8.95.

Al

 

[rayjay]

Here is how I measure the two critical dimensions. For the raw material to make the shoulder tool I use brass pipe available in the plumbing section of the local Ace hardware store.