How to hand lap a factory barrel?

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Going to be purchasing a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .243 Win. soon. I want to either hand lap the barrel myself, or take it to a smith and have it done. Anything to get it shooting to its full potential. I don't know how to hand lap a barrel and any insight would be appreciated. This is probably not the right forum for this question but, I know there are some very knowledgable people on here so what the hell. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Mike

 

[savet06]

Mike,
I am not the most experienced person on this board by any means, but I do have some and it may save you some cash.
As far as lapping goes it is not the smoothness of the bore that will increase accuracy. There are plenty of savage barrels out there that look like someone used a chisel to make the lands and grooves and the darn things shoot great (not BR great, but 0.5MOA great). Lapping will improve the degree of fouling you might get, and MAY improve accuracy, but it will not turn a bummer into a hummer unless there are some really bad tooling marks in the chamber or a poorly cut crown (in which case lapping won't help either).
I don't know what someone would charge to hand lap a factory barrel, but I would rather put my money on a new custom barrel and reap the benefits of a well cut chamber, good headspacing, and a perfectly cut crown by my gunsmith (not to mention time and true the action while you are there).
Investing money in a factory barrel just isn't worth it. Your first 50 or so rounds will lap it for you anyway. I say shoot the crap out of that first one, and then, when it comes time to rebarrel, get a good custom maker's barrel and don't look back.
HTH,
Mike

 

[SS427]

The best I think you can to with an SPS Remington is replace the stock. Here is a great review where they swapped out the stock and cut nearly a quarter inch off the group size. http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm

I have a newer Remington varmint rifle with the H.S. Precision stock and it shoots very good. Lots of people talk trash about the current Remington rifles, so I might have just gotten lucky, but for out of box accuracy it beats the Savage rifles I've purchased recently.

 

[Bob3700]

A factory rifle's accuracy is directly related to it's bbl. Factory bbls are a production product and therefore a crap shoot.

Take the rifle and have it bedded (Devcon is my favorite material) and then recrowned. That will take care of the two biggest variables.

Next, if you want to smooth the throat a bit, get some of David Tubbs Fire Lapping bullets that are impregnated with lapping coumpound. That will smooth up the throat and bore.

Now, just go shoot it cause any further lapping just makes the bore larger and doesn't contribute to accuracy.

Bob

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Thanks guys for the feedback! I'm prone to overthinking things a bit so I need to bounce them off of people to get back on track! The reason I'm going with this rifle is that it is cheap and when I shoot the barrel out, I have a 700 action to build on. Basically what HTH said. This rifle has some earmarks of being a good shooter in the meantime. Thanks again for the insight!

Mike

 

[tiny68]

I have lapped/polished my last several factory barrels with the method below. The goal was not necessarily to improve accuracy, but to reduce the massive copper fouling I see with most factory tubes. I use a method taught to me by my gunsmith. Use JB paste (non-embedding bore cleaning compound). It is very fine git. Definitely use a bore guide. I use a tight patch of a good jag with a good dab of JB paste. I push the cleaning rod down the barrel to the point where the jag is almost exiting the crown. I put a clamp on the cleaning rod to prevent the jag from ever coming out and doing crown damage. Now the work begins. I do 10-15 strokes with the patch, then turn it over and do 10-15 more strokes. Replace the patch with a new dab of JB paste and do it again and again until I have ran 150-200 strokes. I clean the barrel well at this point. I run a new dry patch in and try and feel for tight spots or roughness. You feel it pretty easy. I repeat with fresh patches and JB paste until I have done a total of 500-1000 strokes. The last Savage barrel I purchased with really really rough and it took that much (1000 strokes) to smooth it out. I have done this with about 6 barrels. I have been very pleased with the out come. It takes a couple of hours, but it is worth it in my opinion. Some people use a much more aggressive git and do it in fewer strokes. I would rather just go slow.

I have heard mixed reviews on the Tubb's polishing bullets. I don't think that is for me, but so like it.

Luck, Tim

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I had one fellow tell me Flitz but, I was a little skeptical. I have seen the JB paste at one of the shops where I get reloading supplies. If my memory serves me right that stuff is about 600 grit, or something like that. I guess I was unclear as to what lapping done for the barrel but, if it makes it easier to clean in the long run I would do it. I love shooting, hate cleaning. It is a necessary evil though! Thanks Tim!

Mike

 

[savet06]

HTH = Hope This/That Helps ;D. As much as I have tried to resist it I have fallen prey to the web/texting world of abbreviations.
My name is Mike as well, and I hope that my words do help.
Best of luck with your project.
Mike Suhie

Others that you may come across
YMMV - your mileage may vary
IMHO - In my humble opinion
LOL - laugh out loud
ROTFLMAO - roll on the floor laugh my a** off
BFF - Best Friends Forever...might not see this one on a gun forum, however.

 

[Rtheurer]

Mike

Dont get a Bore scope.. you will most likely talk yourself into thinking that all these factory barrels cant shoot do to the huge tooling marks left in the barrel. Ive seen some real dousy's. The worst one I came across was my brothers Ruger 77 heavy barrel in 308. I know for a fact that rifle is a sub 1/2 MOA gun but it looked horrible inside. And the best looking one was a two groove 1903 takeoff barrel that shot a ton of cast bulets in it. it was smooth as a baby's bottom, but wouldnt shoot all that great. moral of the story is.... just because there is tooling marks does not mean the rifle will shoot or not. They just seem to foul sooner. I guess that makes sense.

You may end up using some JB every 200 rounds just to keep the carbon build up down as you shoot this rifle and at the same time be smoothing it up a bit. thats a win win

I think your on the right path. go ahead and shoot the tare out of it.

Good luck Mike

RussT

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Thanks again guys for all the input! Mike I am a bit ignorant to all the texting areviations so thankyou. I thought HTH were your intitials! I guess what I will do is just shoot the barrel in, like I did with my Savage 12 VLP 22-250, and it shoots great. Thanks again all!

Mike Houseworth

 

[Bradley Walker]

My last two stck Remington barrels flat hammer.

My 308 is a J-lock tactical and it will shoot .25 MOA with 168 match loads. A legit .25 MOA. ti is not even bedded. It is insane.

I just bought a stainless SPS to replace my old tactical in my favorite stock. I took the guts of the gun, put in my old trigger, and bedded it in the stock. After breaking in the barrel, and having the barrel rechambered to 223 AI it shoots ALWAYS under .5 MOA. My old tactical would shoot just as well but it had more fliers.

PS: I shoot moly. I do not give a crap what anyone says.

 

[Preacher]

I ran a tight mop loaded with JB though one of my factory SS 7mmSAUMs a few thousand times and it polished it up really nice and just about totally stopped the copper catching.. It's now one of my most accurate factory rifles..
Just be careful to keep it from rounding out the muzzle by going to hard and to fast....

 

[Bradley Walker]

I ran a tight mop loaded with JB though one of my factory SS 7mmSAUMs a few thousand times and it polished it up really nice and just about totally stopped the copper catching.. It's now one of my most accurate factory rifles..
Just be careful to keep it from rounding out the muzzle by going to hard and to fast....

What is a mop?

 

[Steve Blair]

What is a mop?

I learned about these in the Navy. They are devices with long wooden handles that are used to torment young sailors.

Seriously; This is a bore mop.

 

[hawghunter]

A bore mop looks like a bore brush but made of cotton hope this helps Mark

 

[fdshuster]

Mike

Dont get a Bore scope.. you will most likely talk yourself into thinking that all these factory barrels cant shoot do to the huge tooling marks left in the barrel. Ive seen some real dousy's. The worst one I came across was my brothers Ruger 77 heavy barrel in 308. I know for a fact that rifle is a sub 1/2 MOA gun but it looked horrible inside. And the best looking one was a two groove 1903 takeoff barrel that shot a ton of cast bulets in it. it was smooth as a baby's bottom, but wouldnt shoot all that great. moral of the story is.... just because there is tooling marks does not mean the rifle will shoot or not. They just seem to foul sooner. I guess that makes sense.

You may end up using some JB every 200 rounds just to keep the carbon build up down as you shoot this rifle and at the same time be smoothing it up a bit. thats a win win

I think your on the right path. go ahead and shoot the tare out of it.

Good luck Mike

RussT

Mike I could not agree with you more about some "ugly" barrels being very good shooters, and also, some "perfect" barrels that will not shoot into a bucket. But, we are in complete dis-agreement about the value of a borescope. I just replaced my original 4 year old "Hawkeye" (now my son's), with another new "Hawkeye", and it continues to be the single most valuable shooting/reloading/cleaning tool I have ever bought. With it I know, not guessing or "I think", when I have accuracy destroying carbon buildup, and when it is gone, copper fouling, both amount & location, what cleaning products really do work, (and which do not/ just more snake oil), the most effective cleaning methods that work for me, and on and on. It is invaluable, and has already paid for itself several times over when I purchase what appears to be a nice, older Rem 700 (for example), and the owner claims "only been fired a couple of boxes". Inspecting the bore reveals what looks like a sewer pipe, and I offer to pay for the receiver and stock only, since the barrel is worthless. My cost instantly goes from the asking $400 to $450 to around $200 to $250. When I sell a rifle, I insist that the buyer inspect the condition of the bore with the "Hawkeye" ( I don't sell junk), and the rifle is easily sold for top dollar, and the buyer knows he's getting his money's worth, not a "pig-in-a-poke". When a rifle starts to throw an occassional wild shot, and begins to copper more, I'm able to verify that it's simply the barrel nearing the end-of-life/ time to be replaced, and not some hidden problem with the ammo, rifle bedding, scope, etc. Sorry to dis-agree with you, and do not want to start an argument, (and will not), but they are just too valuable of a tool to ignore all the information they can provide. p.s.: sorry I screwed up the name, should have been "Russ"

 

[Mikem]

I would love to have a Bore Scope, I'm just not sure how much I would use it, they are expensive, but I suppose I would use it more the longer I had it.

About barrel cleaning, I agree that smooth bores don't catch as much copper and other crap as rough ones do, and that's what barrel cleaning is all about.

But about the frequency of cleaning, this seams to be changing of new. It seams some are letting there barrels go longer between cleaning, and having good results at the paper.
I don't clean my BR barrels but about every 50 to 75 rounds now, and have not noticed any reduction in accuracy, but they are all quality barrels. And a new barrel is a different story. I do know some are waiting until the accuracy starts to fall off before cleaning.
I guess frequent cleaning doesn't hurt, if done right, I just wonder how much it helps.

I think its common for clean barrels to not be on the POA until several rounds have been fired, and all my pulled button barrels are that way. But my one vary good cut rifling barrel is not that way, its dead on with the first round from a clean cold barrel.
Maybe someone can explain this.
Mike.

 

[fdshuster]

mikem: I'm certainly not knowledgable enough to have the answer, why some barrels need frequent ( every 20 rds?), cleaning, and others can go 60 or ? before groups open up. I just have to write it off as "every barrel is different". As you mentioned it also relates to the first shot fired from a clean, cold barrel. Several of my rifles are right on with the first shot, others will toss the first shot slightly high ( enough that it will cost you a point or 2 in a score match), and usually to the right. But, as far as borescopes are concerned, if you were to buy one, you will never regret it, kind of like the "cry once" saying about buying a top quality rifle scope, expensive loading press, etc. The 17" Deluxe focusing kit with the hard case was again delivered to my door, after the rebate, for a total cost of $620. I know many who are paying double that for a high quality rifle scope, and think nothing of it. To me, the "Hawkeye" is more valuable than that rifle scope. I have to laugh when someone holds a barrel up to the light, looks thru the bore, and declares, " That's a really nice bore, like brand new". With the naked eye, they know nothing about the true condition of the bore, and of course, the most important area in the throat cannot be seen without a borescope. I bought used Rem 700, 6mm Rem.ctg. for my first 6ppc build, in 1998, saved the takeoff barrel, since with the naked eye, it looked almost new. Years later planned on rechambering to another 6BR, using my .272" reamer. Had the work all scheduled, ready to go, but gave the bore an "up close and personal" inspection with the "Hawkeye", and it was not even worth being used as a tomato stake. It was a "smoothbore" for the first 4" to 5" in front of the chamber, with huge chucks of steel ripped out of the surface. Without the borescope, I would have thrown $$$$$ down the toilet (the barrel) with the cost of set-back & rechambering. Another savings, thanks to the "Hawkeye". Do whatever you can to look thru one ( a lot of gunsmiths are using them now), and if you are able, get a borescope.

 

[Jamiethesquid]

Are the video Borescopes a reasonable alternative

 

[simo hayha]

Thread is from 2009 bro. Half those posters are probably mia bro