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How much weight variation in final loaded shells?

I have just gotten back into reloading after buying a Henry .44 Big boy X. I was able to purchase some factory ammo at stupid high prices. One brand I bought, Precision One, was anything but. I was getting 6-10 inch groups at 50 yards bench rest and scope. other factory ammo Herter's, I was able to get 1-2 inch. I weighed the loaded shells of the Precision Ones and was getting variation between 370-381 grains literally all over that range, the Herter's were all right at 375 with a few outliers at 371 and 372.
How much do variation do you guys expect in normal finished loads? and should I use my inertia puller to unload the Precision Ones and reload the cartridges?
 
200+ shells and since I don't know what powder it is I would not feel completely safe using it. I ordered a chronograph so I can get a better idea of what the whole deal is with the shells, plus I want to crono my own loads. I would need to resize the shells with the good primers already in them so I don't know if there would be any danger in that.
 
I would test a couple of the heaviest, lightest, and mid weight rounds. If the powder weight is the major source of error then you can reload to correct. You're stuck with bullet and brass variability unless you don't reuse.
 
I would test a couple of the heaviest, lightest, and mid weight rounds. If the powder weight is the major source of error then you can reload to correct. You're stuck with bullet and brass variability unless you don't reuse.
I will run a ballistics test on several rounds when my chronograph comes in.
 
A friend and I ran into this issue with some Factory ammo , as it was shooting all over the target . I checked measurements , and they weren't to terrible , and since my scale was on , I checked a few for weight , thinking they'd be close . Boy was I surprised . We pulled down ten rounds , weighing the powder load of each , and listing it , along with keeping the cases in order . Then we weighed the cases . The cases were with half a grain across the set , but the powder loads were terrible . Variations of up to seven tenths of a grain high , above what we established for a base-line , and two tenths low . That's a total nine tenths of a grain powder variation in ten loads . From so-called factory ammo . After pulling all the rounds left , we did a reload with the baseline weight , and ended up with six cases , with no powder to put in them . They all shot very consistent 10's at 600 , so it was worth the effort to save the ammo . Factory loaded doesn't mean accurate .
 
Follow up: I bought a chronograph to further test the questionable shells (Yes I am OCD,LOL). I shot 6 rounds with three each at both the high a low range of weight. The max variation was 47fps and the standard deviation was 17. The average velocity was 1388. bullet weight 240. I was shooting my Henry rifle 16 inch barrel. I took 2 shots with the very accurate Herter's 240s and got 1691 fps and 1704 fps.
I also bought some calipers and found that the Precision Ones were about 1.565 inches in OCL, and the Herter's were 1.590, for a .025 difference.
All this indicates to me (And please correct me if my thinking is incorrect), that the weight variation is likely due to casing or bullet variation and the powder weight is probably good, and at those velocities they are probably using Unique or Universal powder.
Experts please tell me could the OCL be cause the huge accuracy problems with the Precision one shells?
 
A friend and I ran into this issue with some Factory ammo , as it was shooting all over the target . I checked measurements , and they weren't to terrible , and since my scale was on , I checked a few for weight , thinking they'd be close . Boy was I surprised . We pulled down ten rounds , weighing the powder load of each , and listing it , along with keeping the cases in order . Then we weighed the cases . The cases were with half a grain across the set , but the powder loads were terrible . Variations of up to seven tenths of a grain high , above what we established for a base-line , and two tenths low . That's a total nine tenths of a grain powder variation in ten loads . From so-called factory ammo . After pulling all the rounds left , we did a reload with the baseline weight , and ended up with six cases , with no powder to put in them . They all shot very consistent 10's at 600 , so it was worth the effort to save the ammo . Factory loaded doesn't mean accurate .

I did the same kind of thing with some factory premium match ammo as well as with some from an outfit that claimed to produce high quality, highly accurate cartridges. When I didn't get the results I was expecting, I took out of a box and measured for runout, seating depths, bullet specs, case and powder weights. Consistency for any of it was not there and the variance in powder weights was surprisingly off a lot, which in my view explained a lot of what I was seeing on paper. So, after taking the total weight of all the powder of from the cartridges, I divided that number by how many I had emptied and reloaded with the average weight so that all of them had the same powder weight. Of course, I also seating them to a consistent seating depth and with much less runout. The results were twice as good as I had gotten from the 10 from the same box of ammo. Doing this gave me a much better perspective on how my handloading compares to what I can get from factory ammo.
 
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Have you ever done a seating depth test with hand loads for that rifle? Seating depth can be a very big deal when it comes to precision, but I don't have any experience with the potential magnitude of the effect in pistol cartridges and their relatively blunt-shaped bullets (as compared to long centerfire rifle bullets).

I have done similar experiments with regard to commercial rifle ammunition. Even commercial ammunition that shoots quite well across a wide range of rifles (i.e. FGMM) had what seemed to me to be a stunning amount of variance in seating depth, perhaps as much as .008" to .010" across just a few rounds measured. To this day, I haven't figured out why that stuff shoots so well in some of my rifles. I can assure you that if any of my hand loads ever had that kind of seating depth variance, the results would be less than satisfactory.

If the bullets aren't crimped into the necks or sealed, one thing you could try would be to pick one of the shorter cartridges, measure CBTO (cartridge base-to-ogive), then seat the bullets in a few of the longer cartridges a little deeper to match and see how they worked. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that the seating depth of the shorter cartridges in the box is necessarily optimized for your rifle, but it would be a relative simple way to obtain several that all had the same seating depth and determine whether that had a noticeable effect. I would avoid using cartridge overall length (COAL) as the measure if possible, as individual bullet length variance within the loaded rounds can markedly affect the interpretation of the measurements, even when all the bullets are seated to approximately the same CBTO.

At under 50 fps (47 fps), the velocity variance you obtained using the two extremes in cartridge weight doesn't seem too bad to me for commercial ammunition. I can't tell from your follow-up post whether you ever directly weighed the powder in any of these shells, or how that velocity extreme spread might compare to your hand loads, but it seems unlikely to be the major cause of your group spreads at such a short distance (50 yd). You are correct in that the total weight variance between loaded rounds can come from weight variance within any of the individual components that make up the loaded rounds. As a general rule in such examples, the majority of the total weight variance is most likely to come from the heaviest components that make up the largest portion of the total weight; in this example that would likely be the bullets and cases. Based on your velocity extreme spread, it is probably safe to assume that the charge weight variance was a minor fraction of the total weight variance. Otherwise, the ES would have been noticeably larger.

In terms of determining exactly why the Precision One ammunition shoots so poorly in your rifle, the question I would ask is whether it's really worth the effort? Pulling and reloading a large number of rounds that you already paid for is not something I would undertake, due to the effort involved. Unless it was possible to re-seat the longer rounds to match the shortest as I mentioned above, and doing so actually had a noticeable effect on precision, I would simply buy one box each of several different brands of .44 ammunition and determine empirically what grouped the best, then buy more of that. If the current ammunition shortage is part of the problem, perhaps you sell the Precision One ammunition, or trade it to someone for a different brand that worked better in your setup.
 
Have you ever done a seating depth test with hand loads for that rifle? Seating depth can be a very big deal when it comes to precision, but I don't have any experience with the potential magnitude of the effect in pistol cartridges and their relatively blunt-shaped bullets (as compared to long centerfire rifle bullets).

I have done similar experiments with regard to commercial rifle ammunition. Even commercial ammunition that shoots quite well across a wide range of rifles (i.e. FGMM) had what seemed to me to be a stunning amount of variance in seating depth, perhaps as much as .008" to .010" across just a few rounds measured. To this day, I haven't figured out why that stuff shoots so well in some of my rifles. I can assure you that if any of my hand loads ever had that kind of seating depth variance, the results would be less than satisfactory.

If the bullets aren't crimped into the necks or sealed, one thing you could try would be to pick one of the shorter cartridges, measure CBTO (cartridge base-to-ogive), then seat the bullets in a few of the longer cartridges a little deeper to match and see how they worked. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that the seating depth of the shorter cartridges in the box is necessarily optimized for your rifle, but it would be a relative simple way to obtain several that all had the same seating depth and determine whether that had a noticeable effect. I would avoid using cartridge overall length (COAL) as the measure if possible, as individual bullet length variance within the loaded rounds can markedly affect the interpretation of the measurements, even when all the bullets are seated to approximately the same CBTO.

At under 50 fps (47 fps), the velocity variance you obtained using the two extremes in cartridge weight doesn't seem too bad to me for commercial ammunition. I can't tell from your follow-up post whether you ever directly weighed the powder in any of these shells, or how that velocity extreme spread might compare to your hand loads, but it seems unlikely to be the major cause of your group spreads at such a short distance (50 yd). You are correct in that the total weight variance between loaded rounds can come from weight variance within any of the individual components that make up the loaded rounds. As a general rule in such examples, the majority of the total weight variance is most likely to come from the heaviest components that make up the largest portion of the total weight; in this example that would likely be the bullets and cases. Based on your velocity extreme spread, it is probably safe to assume that the charge weight variance was a minor fraction of the total weight variance. Otherwise, the ES would have been noticeably larger.

In terms of determining exactly why the Precision One ammunition shoots so poorly in your rifle, the question I would ask is whether it's really worth the effort? Pulling and reloading a large number of rounds that you already paid for is not something I would undertake, due to the effort involved. Unless it was possible to re-seat the longer rounds to match the shortest as I mentioned above, and doing so actually had a noticeable effect on precision, I would simply buy one box each of several different brands of .44 ammunition and determine empirically what grouped the best, then buy more of that. If the current ammunition shortage is part of the problem, perhaps you sell the Precision One ammunition, or trade it to someone for a different brand that worked better in your setup.
I bought 250 of the Precision Ones, (single bulk pack) I paid over $300, and have about 200 left. I think if the problem is the seating depth then it would be that they are seated too deep, since the Herter's are .035 OCL longer. Since the shape of the bullets is roughly the same between the two brands I think the difference in CBTO would be about the same as well. The Precision One shells are not crimped at all so I think unloading them would take some time but considered the price of .44s it might be worth the time. I hate to trade someone else bad shells. My right arm may get huge from using the inertia puller on 200 shells. lol. If I reloaded them I would most likely toss the powder and reload with H110 to a higher velocity.
 
I bought 250 of the Precision Ones, (single bulk pack) I paid over $300, and have about 200 left. I think if the problem is the seating depth then it would be that they are seated too deep, since the Herter's are .035 OCL longer. Since the shape of the bullets is roughly the same between the two brands I think the difference in CBTO would be about the same as well. The Precision One shells are not crimped at all so I think unloading them would take some time but considered the price of .44s it might be worth the time. I hate to trade someone else bad shells. My right arm may get huge from using the inertia puller on 200 shells. lol. If I reloaded them I would most likely toss the powder and reload with H110 to a higher velocity.
That is certainly an achievable goal. However, you need to be careful not to damage the bullets during the process, which is fairly easy to do. You will also need to re-size the brass as you mentioned, which means being extra careful with the seated primers. That can definitely be done, but will require close attention. My only thought with regard to trading/selling them is that perhaps they might shoot much better "as is" out of someone else's setup.

Given what you're thinking of doing, might it be possible just to pull the bullets out a very slight distance with the puller so you can then reseat them to the same seating depth as the Herter's without actually pulling them all the way out of the neck and thereby having to resize the cases? I've never tried that before. I'd imagine doing so might still change the neck tension a bit, but if seating depth was really the major cause of poor precision, it might not be enough to make a difference. If I were to try that approach, I'd probably just do it first with a few rounds to get a feel for the process, and to shoot a couple groups and determined whether it actually had the desired effect on precision. Even though the two bullets might look similar in shape to your eye, there is no guarantee that the bullets in the Precision One rounds will necessarily have the same seating depth optimum as the loaded rounds from Herter's. Alternatively, you could probably do the same thing and actually set up a seating depth test, as opposed to simply re-seating them to the same CBTO as the Herter's rounds. Just a thought. I've never actually tried to partially pull a bullet and I'm not sure it would be easy to pull them out just a short distance or even remotely consistent if you managed to do so. Obviously, any CBTO consistency would be remedied by re-seating, but I'm not sure what the effect of trying to partially pull bullets would have on neck tension.
 
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For my 405gr cast with 12gr of Unique, the extreme spread in weight with same brass etc was like 7gr. That makes me nervous when dealing with such small charges in 45-70 brass, but I'm mindful and manually weigh all charges.
 
should I use my inertia puller to unload the Precision Ones and reload the cartridges?
I agree that factory manufactured ammunition is not that great, I’ve had problems with it years ago during hunting seasons before I started Reloading.
If you were going to take apart many cases then I suggest you get an RCBS collet bullet puller or other brand. It is so much easier than playing whack a mole with the inertia type puller, which is fine if you’re only doing a few.
Good luck with your quest for accuracy.;)

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