How much did the CO-AX press improve your loads?

[msinc]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Sound like,my money will be spent better on other things before buying another press. I do reload for my Tikka T3 bolt gun as well as my new long range AR.

Got a couple questions.

What is the advantage of an arbor press and straight line seating dies?

What scientific scale do you guys use? How much advantage do you see over a scale that reads to .1 grain.

I have tried many different seating dies and have always found the L.E. Wilson straight line seater dies to be the most accurate as far as bullet to case/chamber concentricity is concerned. You can use your hand and you can use a plastic hammer to "drive" the bullet into the case, but a small arbor press is easier and not expensive. As far as basic seat dies that come with standard dies...you can throw them away. I have yet to see any of them that are acceptable. I really don't know why they bother to make them. They will get a bullet into the case, but that is about all I can say for those seater dies.
Hornady New Dimension Custom seater dies sometimes work pretty good, but are not a given. Forester Bonanza benchrest seater dies work pretty good too. Personally, I have never had use for the versions of any kind of seater die that has a micrometer dial on the top...I just don't need it. I will say though that like a lot of things, if it boosts your confidence then go for it. Many competitive shooters do not worry much about bullet concentricity, they believe seating into the lands is enough.
As to the scale...weighing powder charges to less than .1 grain is definitely not a necessity...even the hardest of hardcore benchrest shooters that win all the time don't do it. Don't get me wrong...you need an accurate, repeatable, calibrated scale, but for me, even a half a grain has proven close enough.

Edit; I guess I should clarify why I have two concentricity gauges...the RCBS will tell me if my resize die is getting the necks concentric like it should or if it is not correcting or keeping the cases straight. The Hornady shows overall cartridge concentricity and has the provision to correct a cartridge being tested.

 

[Shynloco]

So should I buy a mass produced Concentricity gauge like a Hornady or spring for a premium model like the 21st Century guauge.

http://www.xxicsi.com/concentricity-gauge.html

zane,
Don't waste your money on the Hornady Concentricity Gauge. Go straight to the 21st Century as it is FAR superior. Take it from someone who has both. The Hornady does make for an excellent paper weight though.

Alex

 

[kountryboy2]

I have used a co ax press for a few years. It won't necessarily load a more accurate round than any other press. The reason I was drawn to it,is I HATE shell holders. There are certain limits with the co ax press. I still have and use a Redding single stage press as well as a very old Lyman all American turret press. I have my co ax press setup so I can take it with me and load at the range.

 

[amlevin]

What is the advantage of an arbor press and straight line seating dies?

The arbor press is used with multi-piece dies like the Wilson's. The entire assembly is pressed together as a unit, forming the case as straight as possible along with seating the bullet with no room for error (in various steps).

What scientific scale do you guys use? How much advantage do you see over a scale that reads to .1 grain.

I chuckle regularly when I watch those who have the expensive lab grade scales, who brag how they loaded their rounds down to +/- "one piece of fly poop", and then get their butts kicked by shooters that just "dump and seat" using a Harrell-Culver measure without even checking loads on a scale. Weighing beyond +/-.1 gr might pay off at long ranges (1K to 1 Mile) but not at the ranges most shoot.

So many other factors in play I doubt that just getting an expensive scale will improve accuracy alone. When everything else is dealt with and one wants to spend money on something new -------??????

 

[jonbearman]

The most important thing is to do all the prep steps so you can produce good quality ammo even with lee products that I might add have worked for many years for a lot of shooters who wont admit they use their stuff. I have a 1970's rockchucker with 10's of thousands of rounds through it and can produce straight ammo down to less than .002 thou of runout. Get real good at preparing your brass and setting up your dies properly to give minimum headspace along with the correct seating depth . The scale, hmmm could be an older beam scale which you should use to check your electronic scales against after scott parker tunes the older scale up. If you buy a 600.00 scale then chances are it is more than accurate. Get a good book on precision reloading, daid tubb and others along with the berger book and tony boyers book which gives good ideas. Get real proficient and go shoot and remember all mechanical scales have to be leveled.

 

[normmatzen]

My long range bench rest loading procedure is;
anneal after each firing,
body size cases,
prep neck for burrs,
neck size with Lee collet die
Adjust seating force with custom sizing mandrels
prime with new Lee bench mounted primer
measure charge with Ohaus TS200 (+/- 0.015 grain),
Charge accuracy DOES count for long range BR!
seat bullets and monitor seating force with inline die in small press

 

[jlow]

>>>How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality<<<
Possibly none at all. If your lock rings are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the seating die chamber you may make your ammo worse through no fault of the press. The design of the Co-AX does not allow the die to tilt into alignment. Forester talks about everything being able to move into alignment in their marketing BS but they are exaggerating if they think the dies can tilt. Make sure your die lock rings are square to the die body. About the only way to check them is in a lathe.

Yip! Tell it like it is - Good!

 

[danny]

zane,
Don't waste your money on the Hornady Concentricity Gauge. Go straight to the 21st Century as it is FAR superior. Take it from someone who has both. The Hornady does make for an excellent paper weight though.

Alex

Alex,
What functions on the 21st Century gage are Superior to the Hornady? I have the Forster gage, myself.

Danny

 

[Ray123]

>>>How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality<<<
Possibly none at all. If your lock rings are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the seating die chamber you may make your ammo worse through no fault of the press. The design of the Co-AX does not allow the die to tilt into alignment. Forester talks about everything being able to move into alignment in their marketing BS but they are exaggerating if they think the dies can tilt. Make sure your die lock rings are square to the die body. About the only way to check them is in a lathe.

My Forester CO-AX tilts in every direction. I use recommended Forester die locking rings. There is clearance in all directions, plus the shell holder floats. So I went out and measured lockring runout as described in a lathe collet on a few of the various dies in use and the ring locked down. All were .001 TIR or less one was .0015. Then I took a resizing die out of the RCBS Rockchucker it was a wopping .010 TIR, tried another and it was .002 out of the RCBS press. Lee dies float around with the o ring design and it was .005 TIR. So the Forester design tests out well especially if you use their die rings as I do.
I have many presses and use the Rockchucker a lot. But I prefer the Forester CO-AX to all when not on one of the Dillions, cause for me it makes great ammo and it's easier and more enjoyable for me to use.