How much did the CO-AX press improve your loads?

[zanemoseley]

I've about squared away my guns for the 2016 shooting season and am thinking of putting my fun money in the coming months toward increasing the quality of my reloading equipment to make higher quality ammo.

Here's what I already have:
RCBS Rock Chucker fitted with LNL bushing for general tasks and rifle loading
RCBS chargemaster, I also prime on the press.
Hornady LNL AP for pistol
RCBS case trimmer
Various dies, most not high end, just RCBS except my new Whidden 6mm Fat Rat Dies

Things I may invest in:
Forster CO-AX press for improved rifle loading quality, will still keep the Rock Chucker for grunt work like depriming, lead bullet sizing and pulling.
Concentricity gauge
Neck turning tool
Nicer Redding, Forster or Whidden dies
Precision hand primer or RCBS bench primer



So I love reloading gadgets and tools but figure I should invest in the most valuable tools first that will improve my ammo quality most. How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality. Is there something else I should invest in first.

 

[Boxcar77]

I would buy the concentricity gauge first, if you're concentricity and shoulder bump is consistent why bother with the Co-Ax.

Also IMO depriming is a much cleaner job on the Co-Ax compared to a Rocj Chucker.

 

[zanemoseley]

So should I buy a mass produced Concentricity gauge like a Hornady or spring for a premium model like the 21st Century guauge.

http://www.xxicsi.com/concentricity-gauge.html

 

[22DASHER]

Get this one:

http://www.bullettipping.com/products_concentricitygauge.html

Check out the video for details

 

[zanemoseley]

Get this one:

http://www.bullettipping.com/products_concentricitygauge.html

Check out the video for details

They sure are proud of that gauge. Its almost $100 more than the 21st Century gauge and seems to have the same features.

 

[Boxcar77]

They sure are proud of that gauge. Its almost $100 more than the 21st Century gauge and seems to have the same features.

I have the 21st century gauge and it has served me well.

 

[ireload2]

>>>How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality<<<
Possibly none at all. If your lock rings are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the seating die chamber you may make your ammo worse through no fault of the press. The design of the Co-AX does not allow the die to tilt into alignment. Forester talks about everything being able to move into alignment in their marketing BS but they are exaggerating if they think the dies can tilt. Make sure your die lock rings are square to the die body. About the only way to check them is in a lathe.

 

[danny]

Interesting. Possibly thinning die lock rings to allow a bit of slop and tilt allowance might improve things. Of course, that would invalidate the ball detent feature in the die slot area, but I don't think that is a super important feature.

Danny

>>>How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality<<<
Possibly none at all. If your lock rings are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the seating die chamber you may make your ammo worse through no fault of the press. The design of the Co-AX does not allow the die to tilt into alignment. Forester talks about everything being able to move into alignment in their marketing BS but they are exaggerating if they think the dies can tilt. Make sure your die lock rings are square to the die body. About the only way to check them is in a lathe.

 

[LHSmith]

#1 attribute to quality ammo is a die that resizes correctly to YOUR chamber. IMHO, any press that will not influence the case as it enters the die. Any single stage press can be made to permit the shellholder to float laterally to prevent bias. Secondly, single stage presses offer the ability to micro-manage shoulder bump with shims or die adjusters (21 st Century, or Carstensen click style).

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Squaring up lock rings will make no difference on a coax. Youre limited by how square the top of the die slot is in the press.

 

[nmkid]

I have the 21st century and I must admit...I don't like it! Can never seem to get the right amount of pressure on the case to rotate it evenly. Yes, I have the optional large wheel on it.

 

[amlevin]

Interesting. Possibly thinning die lock rings to allow a bit of slop and tilt allowance might improve things. Of course, that would invalidate the ball detent feature in the die slot area, but I don't think that is a super important feature.

Danny

Actually that won't do anything but give you a thinner lock ring. Once pressure is against the top surface of the lock ring it's aligned with the press, good, bad, or ugly. The 'slop' will only be there when there's no pressure on the die.

FWIW, I bought an RCBS Summit. When properly adjusted it produces sized cases with <.001" runout. Adjustments take only about a minute and "last" for a thousand rounds or so before I check again.

One thing I did add to the Summit which increases it's ease of use is the Hornady L-N-L bushing kit. All the dies I use with this press have the QC bushings installed and can be swapped in seconds, always maintaining adjustment. Makes the single stage press as quick and easy as a turret press.

Unlike the Forster, the Summit can be mounted on a flat surface with no need to provide room anything below the bench surface. Two handles available. Long for FL Sizing and short for neck sizing/bullet seating.

Lastly, over $100 less expensive than the Co-Ax.

 

[danny]

Now that you mention it,
thinning the lock ring would not work, if you think it through. Only having good dies and good machining in the die slot would matter. The top of the lock ring would also need to be true to maintain alignment of the die.

Danny

>>>How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality<<<
Possibly none at all. If your lock rings are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the seating die chamber you may make your ammo worse through no fault of the press. The design of the Co-AX does not allow the die to tilt into alignment. Forester talks about everything being able to move into alignment in their marketing BS but they are exaggerating if they think the dies can tilt. Make sure your die lock rings are square to the die body. About the only way to check them is in a lathe.

Actually that won't do anything but give you a thinner lock ring. Once pressure is against the top surface of the lock ring it's aligned with the press, good, bad, or ugly. The 'slop' will only be there when there's no pressure on the die.

FWIW, I bought an RCBS Summit. When properly adjusted it produces sized cases with <.001" runout. Adjustments take only about a minute and "last" for a thousand rounds or so before I check again.

One thing I did add to the Summit which increases it's ease of use is the Hornady L-N-L bushing kit. All the dies I use with this press have the QC bushings installed and can be swapped in seconds, always maintaining adjustment. Makes the single stage press as quick and easy as a turret press.

Unlike the Forster, the Summit can be mounted on a flat surface with no need to provide room anything below the bench surface. Two handles available. Long for FL Sizing and short for neck sizing/bullet seating.

Lastly, over $100 less expensive than the Co-Ax.

 

[waldo1979]

#1 attribute to quality ammo is a die that resizes correctly to YOUR chamber. IMHO, any press that will not influence the case as it enters the die. Any single stage press can be made to permit the shellholder to float laterally to prevent bias. Secondly, single stage presses offer the ability to micro-manage shoulder bump with shims or die adjusters (21 st Century, or Carstensen click style).

I second this. I have a CNC machined press from Harold's where I've finished it using a diamond stone to take up 0.0005" of slack. All that doesn't matter when you run an expander ball back through the neck and it ruins your run out.

 

[Bill3508]

>>>How much will the CO-AX improve my ammo quality<<<
Possibly none at all. If your lock rings are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the seating die chamber you may make your ammo worse through no fault of the press. The design of the Co-AX does not allow the die to tilt into alignment. Forester talks about everything being able to move into alignment in their marketing BS but they are exaggerating if they think the dies can tilt. Make sure your die lock rings are square to the die body. About the only way to check them is in a lathe.

I thought the coax had a floating die setup that self centered?

 

[ireload2]

The die can easily float in one axis and the cartridge can float in 1 axis. However the die is not able to tilt significantly in any axis.

I thought the coax had a floating die setup that self centered?

 

[msinc]

"How much will the Co-ax press improve my ammo quality????"

None. I would liken the Co-ax press to a Colt Python...everyone sounds off about how great they are, but when you finally get one in your possession and use it you quickly realize that it is absolutely NOT what it is cracked up to be. I like and own a lot of Forester reloading tools and I have had the Co-ax press.
If it's better quality ammo you are after I would suggest you get the following if you don't already have it:

1. Sinclair primer pocket uniformer

2. L.E. Wilson straight line Seater dies and a small arbor press

3. Stoney Point headspace gauge and corresponding "go" gauges

4. Forester Classic case trimmer with outside neck turning tooling

5. Chronograph {to tell you when you have truly consistent ammo}

6. Some type of annealing device {propane torch and pliers to $1000 machine, it all does the same thing}

7. A priming tool that seats primers to an absolute known consistent depth

8. Good quality 6 inch caliper

9. Concentricity gauge {I have the RCBS and the Hornady}


I would also suggest you seriously consider the following equipment to improve your shooting:

1. JB bore cleaner {to really get the copper out}

2. Borescope {to make sure you really have a good quality CLEAN barrel, good throat and crown}

3. Real, live, honest to god benchrest and rear bag {Sinclair/Protektor}

These are the things that have helped me improve my reloads the most. I am sure there are other tools and equipment you might want/need, but these are the ones that have proven to make the most difference, yield the most gains. Good luck.

 

[Rtheurer]

Zane... Look into getting a good Lab Scale first. then good High Quality dies. I would look at the run out gage ( Concentricity) close to last. You can barrow one of those pretty easy but try to barrow a guys Lab Scale or a good set of Dies... Forget it.
A good Micrometer is helpful as well along with a good Caliper.
My Concentricity gage sits and collects dust. For what your doing. with a Semi Auto... No need. As soon as you let that bolt fly home all bets are off and you just wasted a bunch of time for nothing when you could have been working on Powder charges hand priming and Neck Tension Consistency. Those three are the first big one's to bite off and chew on. Oh and Bullet seating depth is in there too.

 

[Liven The Dream]

2 cent ! I am a Palma long range shooter 27 + years.
Press Rock Chucker and Redding Boss 2
Dies RCBS and Redding carbide floater Balls in all sizing dies,
All seating Dies Mic adjustable RCBS or Redding
Sinclair Concentricity Gauge
Scales Game Pro 250 Redding # 1 & #2

I get 7-8 reloads out of Winchester .308 brass with .001 to .002 run out.
I adjust my Die to pimp the shoulder .002 on fired cases.

Point you can not get good results by spending more money.
Time spent using tools slow and proper is a good starting point. Not saying you don't !

The very old Speer #8 Reloading Manual has a get list of tips for reloading a good read.

The Best of Luck

 

[zanemoseley]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Sound like,my money will be spent better on other things before buying another press. I do reload for my Tikka T3 bolt gun as well as my new long range AR.

Got a couple questions.

What is the advantage of an arbor press and straight line seating dies?

What scientific scale do you guys use? How much advantage do you see over a scale that reads to .1 grain.