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How much cheek weld pressure

Often here about hold, but how much cheek weld pressure do you use when shooting FT/R? Noticed while practicing today that when I lay my head on the rest the cross hairs go up and to the left because the pressure pushes down and over . This cant be a neutral hold. It has to induce a recoil other than straight back. Should you try for a neutral hold where crosshairs are as close to possible as where they are just settled in the rear bag?

If weather holds I will get back to the range this week before this coming weekends comps. I did get my bag and mat issues worked out.

Just working on the rest.
 
I don't believe cheek weld is as much about pressure as it is about position. Simply put, you want to be able to close your eyes, shoulder your rifle to its ready position and when you open your eyes be in a position to be looking perfectly straight down the scope. IMO, the cheek weld shouldn't be used to support or align the rifle on target but merely enable you to maintain a consistent sight alignment.
 
Lapua40X said:
I don't believe cheek weld is as much about pressure as it is about position. Simply put, you want to be able to close your eyes, shoulder your rifle to its ready position and when you open your eyes be in a position to be looking perfectly straight down the scope. IMO, the cheek weld shouldn't be used to support or align the rifle on target but merely enable you to maintain a consistent sight alignment.

+1
 
Also about this topic. Im curious why people buy high and extra high scope rings? When you naturally lean your head down and place your cheek on the rifle stock and open your eyes you want to be looking directly down the center of the scope. With a regular stock without a raised comb or adjustable cheek pad you need the scope sitting as low as possible for that to happen. I have seen many pics of rifle with regular stocks and the scope is sitting way up high. Im not saying that all those people that have their rifles set up like that is wrong. I just wanna know the reason why they do? Im sure there is a reason for it ??? What am I missing here LOL
 
Like the previous poster, I think that cheek contact is mostly about being able to come back to where you want to, behind the scope, without wasting any time.

One time, I was coaching a fellow who was shooting a magnum with a tactical stock from the bench. It had and adjustable cheek piece that he had so high that his face was deformed around it. I had him lower it till it just grazed his cheek, so that he had just enough contact to find the scope quickly. I also had him stop any other downward pull on the rifle from other sources , and changed his front bag location on the forend, bringing it quite a bit farther back. There were a couple of other changes and with them all, he was able to shoot dramatically smaller groups. Try different things and see what happens. Often shooters try harder instead of trying something different. Generally this does not work.
 
stinnett1981 said:
Also about this topic. Im curious why people buy high and extra high scope rings? When you naturally lean your head down and place your cheek on the rifle stock and open your eyes you want to be looking directly down the center of the scope. With a regular stock without a raised comb or adjustable cheek pad you need the scope sitting as low as possible for that to happen. I have seen many pics of rifle with regular stocks and the scope is sitting way up high. Im not saying that all those people that have their rifles set up like that is wrong. I just wanna know the reason why they do? Im sure there is a reason for it ??? What am I missing here LOL

The only reason I use Leupold PRW High rings is to keep the Sightron 10-50x60mm Obj. bell off my 1.250" barrel, and I use a cheek rest.
 
I would say the extra high scope rings are more the norm in short range Benchrest where we want as little (no) contact with the rifle as possible - except for touching the trigger.
 
AndyTaber is on my lines of thinking. We shoot prone and you are either holding you head up for twenty minutes or laying it on the cheekrest.

I understand the natural alignment, but when prone, is that with your head just touching the cheekpiece or resting on it? Natural alignment is not the question. I can acheive that both ways.

Resting your head on the cheekpiece gives the most relaxed postion availablebut more influence on the rifle.

Slight contact gives the least rifle influence, but creates a more tense body position leading to fatigue ?
 
Got some more practice in today and shot my best two groups yet! Basically I got my rear bag settled in as much as possible, used a new front cork rubber covered board for the bipod support. Made sure to make the board per the
Ft/r rules. I experimented with several holds, two 5 shot groups each.

I ended up with a very light hold with very little cheek pressure. Not a real firm grip either. Good firm push down into the rear bag and just barely touching my shoulder. Almost free recoil, not quite.

I had allways heard firm hold and shot some decent groups but not as good as today. Two five shot groups back to back , both in the high threes!

With a firm hold I was allways in the .5" occasional below.
 
Exactly! I was getting discouraged a bit and man those single big holes sure were nice! Now to figure out the wind ;D
 
I'm still learning about the basics of good shooting and I appreciate all the info on this website. Until I acquire a long-range target rifle I've been practicing with my hunting rifle, a wood-stocked Winchester Model 70 in 7mm Rem Mag, shooting prone off a Harris bipod using an old Burris 2-7X scope. My trigger pull is improving but I got to thinking about cheek weld when I was shooting last weekend. My rifle has the original Monte Carlo-style raised cheek piece and I have a neoprene wrap-around ammo holder covering the rear of the stock. The neoprene is slippery, which I think would be good to allow the stock to move straight back under recoil but I'm not sure about that. One other thing I realize after reading more articles on this website is that I should be using a rear sand bag to stabilize the butt of the rifle.
 
This sight is a tremendous resource for great information! In order to get the most out of it you must learn to filter the data and understand the sources the information (and often times opinions) are coming. What I mean by this; there are many disciplines in precision shooting and most are discussed here by some really great shooters. Some of the set ups, techniques, equipment will cross over between disciplines and apply really well. Others do not. If you look closely whenever there is a thread answering questions related to load development the truly knowledgable crowd will ask a lot of questions to the OP on chamber specs, bullet weights, brand etc if not given in the original question. This is not to be antagonizing, demeaning, or to aggravate but mostly to fully understand all the parameters in play. To simply reply with an answer without knowledge of the specs, on that subject, is down right dangerous!

Now to your topic..... I shoot FTR and put a lot of effort into it. Here's my "opinion" and strategy I went with when I had my first custom rifle built for this discipline just 2 years ago. I do not shoot bench-rest but feel that crowd has the most accurate equipment and load development processes, steps (many get debated here all the time on the value of improvement) out there in their rifles and set ups. I wanted to mimic that and have built what I felt would be the most accurate 308 rifle. I also have learned recoil management is a major factor to high scores. I call this gun handling skills. I try to mimic the recoil in the bags and with a bi-pod the same as the bench-rest guys and open shooters with their front rest. I'm not the only one. My opinion this set up as well as equipment gains and rifle building are the main reasons the FTR scores are stating to rival some open scores now. For me to do this and have my gun track "straight" back in FTR (if that's even possible) I do as you described above, try and get very close to free-recoil. I don't feel complete free recoil works well in FTR but that's getting a little deep in the weeds (which I'm already doing :) ) for this discussion. If I have the right tool and I've done the best I can with load development and tested and verified all is good, my strategy is then to focus on wind reading and my setup before I pull the trigger. Let the equipment and ammo do the work.

I use medium rings as that's all I need for my scope to clear and my cheek set up. I do not want cheek pressure on my gun. I try and place my cheek in the same place every time as a reference point not as a rest point as that puts weight/pressure. I do the same with my thumb, not behind the rifle tang but to the side of the rifle just above my trigger finger as a reference point. My shoulder is just touching the butt pad with no pressure. I try and stay completely relaxed especially in my shoulders so it absorbs the recoil. If I get all that correct my gun usually tracks fairly straight (when I'm directly behind it). I try and do this the exact same every shot......consistency.... I do not stay on the gun for the entire string as many aspire to do. I use a spotting scope for mirage and flag point direction. I also have some back issues and have to at times get completely off my gun (another reason i practice my routine even when load testing to get muscle memory. I'm blessed to shoot with several accomplished competitors in our local matches. They all do relatively the same set up as I describe above. A couple of them need higher rings because of their jaw lines, features etc. I'm sure there are different reasons for others but this defines, in detail, my thinking. Looks like you are on the right track with your set up! At 1000 yds everything gets magnified and assuming everything being equal in equipment and load development between competitors: set up, gun handling, and wind reading separate the top shooters from the pack. A little luck (and X count) usually separate 1 and 2 :)
 
Also about this topic. Im curious why people buy high and extra high scope rings? When you naturally lean your head down and place your cheek on the rifle stock and open your eyes you want to be looking directly down the center of the scope. With a regular stock without a raised comb or adjustable cheek pad you need the scope sitting as low as possible for that to happen. I have seen many pics of rifle with regular stocks and the scope is sitting way up high. Im not saying that all those people that have their rifles set up like that is wrong. I just wanna know the reason why they do? Im sure there is a reason for it ??? What am I missing here LOL
I tried extra high rings, I shot smaller... well,I should say more consistently smaller until the shaking and pain took over. It was very uncomfortable and effected every other part of my position trying to get comfortable.
 
For me the answer is ZERO. I have an adjustable cheek rest on my McMillin F/TR stock, but I've removed it and it won't go back on until I sell the stock. The missing cheek rest gives me room to align my eye with the scope and not touch the rifle at all with my head. Careful testing and experimenting has proven that this procedure gives me the best accuracy.

Of course if your blood pressure is less than mine, which it no doubt is, you may want a firmer grip on your rifle.
 
For me the answer is ZERO. I have an adjustable cheek rest on my McMillin F/TR stock, but I've removed it and it won't go back on until I sell the stock. The missing cheek rest gives me room to align my eye with the scope and not touch the rifle at all with my head. Careful testing and experimenting has proven that this procedure gives me the best accuracy.

Of course if your blood pressure is less than mine, which it no doubt is, you may want a firmer grip on your rifle.
I took my cheek rest off too and just lightly touch the stock for a point of reference while being able to get a full view through the scope. Ideally, you can let go of the rifle and it still remains on target. Forcing it to get your target alignment will make the rifle recoil to one side or the other.
 
I like the first response and the one above this. Position yourself first. In prone, try to find a comfortable head position with your eyes closed. Now open them. the scope should be clearly seen through right there. If not, high, low, crosswise ... makes no never mind - move the scope to that position.

Cpmbine position and minimal cheek contact for the best chance of allowing the rifle to shoot without varying inputs.

For those that think I am only a benchrest shooter, I coached a high school prone shooting team for decades of winning seasons. Schooled by multiple Olympic Medalists, I am a lousy shot to this day. Just relating what I was taught and learned over the decades.
 
A technique I read that works well for me. Resting head on the cheek rest between shots and when loading. Then with no cheek pressure, align the cross hair just below on the bottom of the 9 ring. Apply cheek with just enough pressure to raise the cross hair to center on the Xring. This will assure a slight amount of consistent pressure. Using a bipod and rear bag, this also provides a means to fine tune elevation with the rear bag with consistency.
 
Also about this topic. Im curious why people buy high and extra high scope rings? When you naturally lean your head down and place your cheek on the rifle stock and open your eyes you want to be looking directly down the center of the scope. With a regular stock without a raised comb or adjustable cheek pad you need the scope sitting as low as possible for that to happen. I have seen many pics of rifle with regular stocks and the scope is sitting way up high. Im not saying that all those people that have their rifles set up like that is wrong. I just wanna know the reason why they do? Im sure there is a reason for it ??? What am I missing here LOL

VISION..... Our eyes are designed to work with our head in the vertical position.. ie standing.

For those with young eyes, there is alot more freedom in how you can position yourself, see properly and not strain other parts of your neck and back.

I found that a taller scope allowed me a more upright head on my stock which helped all my other ergonomics... it just felt more comfy for me.

I also wear glasses and you really notice that your vision sucks when you look through the top of the glasses.

Now I have to use progressives and WOWSA, you become hugely aware of cheek and eye position relative to the scope. Out of position, you dont see spit.... so in a way, this forces me to have very similar head position on my comb..... not bad for consistency so a win win (well, maybe not as my natural vision sucks).

And a taller scope makes this much easier....YMMV.

Jerry
 
Also about this topic. Im curious why people buy high and extra high scope rings? When you naturally lean your head down and place your cheek on the rifle stock and open your eyes you want to be looking directly down the center of the scope. With a regular stock without a raised comb or adjustable cheek pad you need the scope sitting as low as possible for that to happen. I have seen many pics of rifle with regular stocks and the scope is sitting way up high. Im not saying that all those people that have their rifles set up like that is wrong. I just wanna know the reason why they do? Im sure there is a reason for it ??? What am I missing here LOL
I have high rings on my vortex razor gen 2 4.5-27×56. The 56 being the key as the obectve lens and outside dimension is quite large and high rings are needed to fit so the scope doesn't hit the bbl. I have a Bell and Carlson A5 st I ck with adjustable cheek piece. I shoot that with a savage 12FV. Please note that minor fitting on that stock is needed for the top bolt release. It is an extremely accurate rifle in 6.5 creedmopr. It did take me about a year to figure out powder and bullets but thats a story for a different atricle
 

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