P1ZombieKiller
Silver $$ Contributor
I've got a 1:8 PacNor on my 6br. How small of a bullet would you load to shoot 100-300 yards with?
How Low Would You Go?
- Thread starter P1ZombieKiller
- Start date
P1ZombieKiller
Silver $$ Contributor
I loaded some 87 vmax's and shot about a .250 5 shot group at 100, so I was just wondering if I could get down to the 58-60's? Any one tried anything that small in their 1:8?
Wes, I guess if I was about to have somewhere around 1800 58gr Vmax's on hand I'd be tempted to find a load that would shoot out of my 8tw too. Of coarse it's very handy to have a long range 6br 8tw shooting these 87's Vmax's or 105 Amax's for those dogs out past 500yds. You'll have enough 58gr bullets for 4 or 5 trips to Kansas if you only shoot em in your new 14tw 17lb rifle. I know you'll be shooting a lot of 39gr SBK's through your 204's on the closer dogs. Please do keep us informed how your load development goes.
Regards
RJ
Regards
RJ
TheBlueEyedBear
'The Nut Behind The Trigger'
I have shot the 75gr V-Max in my 6 DASHER with great results.
I don't have an 8 twist barrel,I have a 10 twist), but I was surprised to see that a 68 grain bullet was more accurate than an 80 grain at 100 yards. The 80 Berger in a 10 twist barrel is supposed to be a great combination, however, that is only true,evidently) at longer distances where the better B.C. of the 80 grain can be taken advantage of. If you take a look at an article at the Lilja site, Dan tells you that if wind was not a factor, the heavier bullets are inherently less accurate. As the wind picks up,and the distance), then the heavier bullets 'wind bucking' capability makes up for that factor.
In conclusion.....The choice of the bullet is NOT just a factor of what your barrel twist is, that only dictates your maximum size bullet. The choice also depends on the distance you intend to shoot, and the wind conditions.
For example; I can shoot up to about a 95 grain bullet, but at 100 yards, my 68 grain seems to be the most accurate. I am guessing at 300 yards, the 80 grain will be a better choice.
In conclusion.....The choice of the bullet is NOT just a factor of what your barrel twist is, that only dictates your maximum size bullet. The choice also depends on the distance you intend to shoot, and the wind conditions.
For example; I can shoot up to about a 95 grain bullet, but at 100 yards, my 68 grain seems to be the most accurate. I am guessing at 300 yards, the 80 grain will be a better choice.
P1ZombieKiller
Silver $$ Contributor
mwood said:
And that is why I want to know how low others are going for 100-300 yard shooting. I want to occasionally shoot in some informal 100 - 200 yard matches for score, and I wondered if I should try to shoot some mid size flat based bullets, instead some of my 100+ grain boat tails. As RJ says, I'm getting a new Dietz built 1:14 twist 6br that comes with 1800+ 58 grain V-max's in a few weeks, and it got my little pea brain a thinkin'. I wanted to know if I should shoot the 8 twist in those competitions, or stick with the 14 twist?
There are lots of variables involved. To make an 'all encompassing statement' such as 60 grains is the way to go would be foolish. I also hate the expression 'shoot what your gun likes'. It is usually from a person who wants to sound 'very wise', when in reality they are really saying 'I don't have a clue'. I was only pointing out that many people are choosing the bullet based on the barrel twist, which is a bit backwards
,in my opinion). In reality, you chose the shooting conditions
,like you did), then the bullet, then the barrel. At the shorter conditions, it seams most are shooting a 68 grain in a 6Br.
It most likely has a reasonable B.C., and still is light enough to have inherent accuracy. Too light would suffer under windy conditions. For the 68 grain Flat based bullet:
The 14 twist would shoot at a higher velocity, than the 8 twist, and therefore have less 'Time in flight'. If the barrels were of equal quality, the 14 twist would most likely be more accurate than the 8 twist for moderate wind conditions.What I have seen is once the bullet is chosen, then the twist chosen is the one that will 'just stabilize the bullet with a moderate load.
I am new to this game, but I do have a technical background, that helps in understanding. I am not trying to give you the direct answer, just some guide lines. I am also not trying to be vague with statements like 'shoot what your gun likes', or try a bunch of different bullets, and see what works. It is very difficult to run a controlled experiment,try different bullets),
because there are so many variables. Since few people have indoor
shooting facilities, with the ability to produce known wind conditions, it might be best to take a semi-analytical approach of understanding the major variables, and observing what is being used by the more successful shooters.,hence the 68 grain flat based). In my gun, even though an 80 or 88 grain bullet should be more tolerant of the wind. In competition, the 68 grain works better, not because of the barrel twist, but because the ability to read the wind seams to be more important than the B.C. advantage of the heavier bullets. So for now I will use the 68 grain Bergers for 100 yards,and hope I can read the wind adequately.
,in my opinion). In reality, you chose the shooting conditions
,like you did), then the bullet, then the barrel. At the shorter conditions, it seams most are shooting a 68 grain in a 6Br.
It most likely has a reasonable B.C., and still is light enough to have inherent accuracy. Too light would suffer under windy conditions. For the 68 grain Flat based bullet:
The 14 twist would shoot at a higher velocity, than the 8 twist, and therefore have less 'Time in flight'. If the barrels were of equal quality, the 14 twist would most likely be more accurate than the 8 twist for moderate wind conditions.What I have seen is once the bullet is chosen, then the twist chosen is the one that will 'just stabilize the bullet with a moderate load.
I am new to this game, but I do have a technical background, that helps in understanding. I am not trying to give you the direct answer, just some guide lines. I am also not trying to be vague with statements like 'shoot what your gun likes', or try a bunch of different bullets, and see what works. It is very difficult to run a controlled experiment,try different bullets),
because there are so many variables. Since few people have indoor
shooting facilities, with the ability to produce known wind conditions, it might be best to take a semi-analytical approach of understanding the major variables, and observing what is being used by the more successful shooters.,hence the 68 grain flat based). In my gun, even though an 80 or 88 grain bullet should be more tolerant of the wind. In competition, the 68 grain works better, not because of the barrel twist, but because the ability to read the wind seams to be more important than the B.C. advantage of the heavier bullets. So for now I will use the 68 grain Bergers for 100 yards,and hope I can read the wind adequately.
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
P1ZombieKiller,
well said mwood. the 6mm 60 gr to 70Gr FB range of benchrest bullets are the best bullets made bar none. They will shoot better in must guns than any bullet. They will be hard to beat out to 300 yds. even in a 8 tw.
If you are having trouble getting your gun to shoot vld's try some FB light benchrest bullets or bullets like the 95ga or 108gr FB Bib's, they will show you what your gun will do.
Any 6mm of mine will shoot the 68 gr FB better than any bullet, I can find inside 300 yds. That is where I start, then move to the bullet for the task I am going to shoot, 600 yd benchrest 105 or 108 Bergers, Varmint hunting 70 gr Blitzkings or 87 vmax depending on the twist, short range 68gr benchrest any of them all are good. If these don't work I will look at other bullets.
Not to say that the VlD's will not shoot, they will, ask Sam Hall. The 105 Breger's have set 20 some records in 600yd IBS, but I have seen some small groups shot at 600 with light bullets, but if the wind gets up you can be off the paper very quick.
Mark Schronce
well said mwood. the 6mm 60 gr to 70Gr FB range of benchrest bullets are the best bullets made bar none. They will shoot better in must guns than any bullet. They will be hard to beat out to 300 yds. even in a 8 tw.
If you are having trouble getting your gun to shoot vld's try some FB light benchrest bullets or bullets like the 95ga or 108gr FB Bib's, they will show you what your gun will do.
Any 6mm of mine will shoot the 68 gr FB better than any bullet, I can find inside 300 yds. That is where I start, then move to the bullet for the task I am going to shoot, 600 yd benchrest 105 or 108 Bergers, Varmint hunting 70 gr Blitzkings or 87 vmax depending on the twist, short range 68gr benchrest any of them all are good. If these don't work I will look at other bullets.
Not to say that the VlD's will not shoot, they will, ask Sam Hall. The 105 Breger's have set 20 some records in 600yd IBS, but I have seen some small groups shot at 600 with light bullets, but if the wind gets up you can be off the paper very quick.
Mark Schronce
I am not trying to take over thread, but thanks Mark
Being new to this sport, its nice to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about. Now if I can only figure out what to do with the 80 and 88 grain Berger's I have. Maybe
I have to learn how to shoot at 600 yards, and find a place near Nashville.
Thanks
Mike
Being new to this sport, its nice to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about. Now if I can only figure out what to do with the 80 and 88 grain Berger's I have. Maybe
I have to learn how to shoot at 600 yards, and find a place near Nashville.
Thanks
Mike
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
Mike,
The 80 GR will work as good as the 68 gr, but may take a 12 tw. For me, the 88gr,They will take a 10 tw barrel)are very hard to get to shoot and stay in tune, but they held the LG IBS 600yd group 1.070' for 2 years, until I broke it with a 0.749' with the 105 berger's, Then it was broken with the same bullet, 0.711' last year.
In a 10 tw, The 90 Bt Berger is a very good long range bullet.
Mark Schronce
The 80 GR will work as good as the 68 gr, but may take a 12 tw. For me, the 88gr,They will take a 10 tw barrel)are very hard to get to shoot and stay in tune, but they held the LG IBS 600yd group 1.070' for 2 years, until I broke it with a 0.749' with the 105 berger's, Then it was broken with the same bullet, 0.711' last year.
In a 10 tw, The 90 Bt Berger is a very good long range bullet.
Mark Schronce
P1ZombieKiller
Silver $$ Contributor
Keep going... I'm learning here.
My thought process was, since I will have 2 6br's, both 1.25' straight match quailty barrels, 1:8 and 1:14, I can have just about any type of ammo loaded up I want to do. I want to not only shoot some informal 100 - 200 yard matches for score,load A), but take the rig to the Pdog towns too,load B). Then sit down and shoot at 600 yards with my buddies at beer cans,load C), then one day learn to shoot at 1000 yards,thats down the road a bit).
I just wondering if I should shoot load's A&B from gun 1, and Loads B&C from gun 2, and load D in gun 2 only.
Since I have no clue about reading wind, and I do not own flags, I'm not looking at winning these competitions, just bettering my score each time I go out, and if I get lucky, and sit next to the guy that has a $5k rig, and score just under him with my $1200 gun.... I'm happy all day long.
My thought process was, since I will have 2 6br's, both 1.25' straight match quailty barrels, 1:8 and 1:14, I can have just about any type of ammo loaded up I want to do. I want to not only shoot some informal 100 - 200 yard matches for score,load A), but take the rig to the Pdog towns too,load B). Then sit down and shoot at 600 yards with my buddies at beer cans,load C), then one day learn to shoot at 1000 yards,thats down the road a bit).
I just wondering if I should shoot load's A&B from gun 1, and Loads B&C from gun 2, and load D in gun 2 only.
Since I have no clue about reading wind, and I do not own flags, I'm not looking at winning these competitions, just bettering my score each time I go out, and if I get lucky, and sit next to the guy that has a $5k rig, and score just under him with my $1200 gun.... I'm happy all day long.
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
WES,
In the 14 tw shoot 68gr FB, for target out to 600 yds, maybe 80 gr if they will shoot, may not in the 14tw, I have had 14 tw that would shoot them. for PD 70gr Blitzkings, or alike kind. I like N135 for my light bullets.
For the 8 tw 87 Vmax for PD, good long range bullet. Then the 105, 108 gr berger's for 600 & 1000 yds. Get to a 1000 yd match soon it will help your long range. Once you shoot 1000 yds everything is a chip shot. Varget & RL 15 for the heavy bullets.
Mark Schronce
In the 14 tw shoot 68gr FB, for target out to 600 yds, maybe 80 gr if they will shoot, may not in the 14tw, I have had 14 tw that would shoot them. for PD 70gr Blitzkings, or alike kind. I like N135 for my light bullets.
For the 8 tw 87 Vmax for PD, good long range bullet. Then the 105, 108 gr berger's for 600 & 1000 yds. Get to a 1000 yd match soon it will help your long range. Once you shoot 1000 yds everything is a chip shot. Varget & RL 15 for the heavy bullets.
Mark Schronce
P1ZombieKiller
Silver $$ Contributor
well...... after asking the question, I think I'm not going to load small bullets after all for this 1:8 barrel. As RJ said, I'm getting a 1:14 in a few weeks, and I'll use that for the 100 - 300 bench shooting,assuming I can get it to shoot the 68-75 size bullets), and my P-dog gun out to as far as my eyes will see.
I decided this because RJ and I went shooting today,and let me tell ya... for an old fart, he can still shoot) and I stumbled on what EVERYONE has told me to do. Load the Lapua brass with +/- 30 grains of Varget, and stuff them down with 105 Berger vld's. I did just that, and low and behold the little green gun will shoot out at 500 yards. Here is my first 500 yard target with a development load on brand new brass.
I decided this because RJ and I went shooting today,and let me tell ya... for an old fart, he can still shoot) and I stumbled on what EVERYONE has told me to do. Load the Lapua brass with +/- 30 grains of Varget, and stuff them down with 105 Berger vld's. I did just that, and low and behold the little green gun will shoot out at 500 yards. Here is my first 500 yard target with a development load on brand new brass.
I know I am a real fan of flat base bullets, especialy at the shorter distances, or even out to the longs in calm conditions. I have used custom flat base bullets in my BR most of the time. Once a year or so, I will get it into my head that I need some super high BC bullet in it to make up for some shots I stuffed up, not reading flags. It didnt take long to go back to the flats. Same with my 6x47,the custom 100gn flat base bullets shoot tighter groups that my 103 and 107 gn boat tails in good conditions. I load them with pinch less powder to get the same velocity with less pressure.
If I didnt have access to such good 100gn bullets, I would try the 88gn Berger flat bases.
If I didnt have access to such good 100gn bullets, I would try the 88gn Berger flat bases.
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