How I make my 20 Vartarg brass

[MFG_BOP]

Hi guys, some people may be interested in seeing how to make 20VT brass. We can find some info over the net, but its always worth it taking a look at different methods and images. Lots of images BTW.
As I am in New Zealand, here is the link of a great forum I am member of.
Hope you guys like it and give me some advices on how to improve it more.

Cheers

Link: http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f53/forming-221-fireball-20-vartarg-brass-14410/

 

[thekriebles]

I enjoyed reading the link and seeing the pics. The mini chop saw is a handy one.

 

[pacificman]

Very good link and pictures MFG! that is just about what I do when forming for 20VT. The only difference is I bought a 21st century neck turner with a 23 degree cutter for the shoulder. I will neck turn then very last step will be to run through the 20VT die. There are a lot of guys that don't want to do all the work it takes to do this but I enjoy being in the reloading room as it's relaxing with the benefit of not having to buy any brass for the 20VT.
One other thing I do is anneal after chopping necks because I also use .223 brass for my .221 fireball. For fireball the necks would have to be expanded to .22 caliber and if I don't anneal I end up with split necks. Again...great link and pics.

 

[Goatsnguns]

Pacificman,

I just ordered a 21st Century Neck Turning Kit, but their website recommended the 30* cutter for the 20 Vartarg. Which should I be using the 23* or the 30*? Also do you use the donut cutting mandrel for the inside of the neck? I am in the process of forming 300 rounds of Rem 221 and 200 rounds of Lapau 221 brass to 20 Vartarg. My two rifles have a .232" and a .228" throats, would you recommend turning the Rem or the Lapau brass for the tight throat?
Thanks for for any thoughts or recommendations,

Gary

 

[pacificman]

Pacificman,

I just ordered a 21st Century Neck Turning Kit, but their website recommended the 30* cutter for the 20 Vartarg. Which should I be using the 23* or the 30*? Also do you use the donut cutting mandrel for the inside of the neck? I am in the process of forming 300 rounds of Rem 221 and 200 rounds of Lapau 221 brass to 20 Vartarg. My two rifles have a .232" and a .228" throats, would you recommend turning the Rem or the Lapau brass for the tight throat?
Thanks for for any thoughts or recommendations,

Gary

This is for forming 20VT with .223 brass:
I ordered the 23 degree cutter because the shoulder is still at 23 degree after running the brass through your .221 fireball die. I turn the necks before I run the brass through the 20VT die. I think the 20VT FL Redding die will want to put a 30 degree shoulder on your brass but not a perfect 30 degree until fire formed. For a proper shoulder (100%) I believe the brass should be fire formed in rifle chamber. After fire forming for a 100 percent shoulder your 20VT die will maintain a 30 degree shoulder angle. As for chamber neck I have been turning the necks on brass to about .12 thousands to fit my .232 chamber neck .12+.12+.204=.228. I hear that you will want at least .002 thousands of neck clearance for chamber. So for .228 chamber you will want to have loaded round to about .226 so sounds like you may have to turn necks a bit further and/or use tighter neck bushing in your die.

If I were to use .221 fireball brass for your chamber sizes I think I would still use the 23 degree cutter and turn the necks before running them in the 20VT die. After running them in the 20VT die I think all work would be done and you would then just trim occasionally size load and shoot. Hope this is not too confusing and there are other 20VT experts here that hopefully will give some ideas as well.

 

[Goatsnguns]

Pacificman,

Thanks a bunch, very helpful. Since I am forming from 221 FB, I use Redding body die and then the FL bushing die w/.226" bushing, I am getting a little "donut" just at the base of the neck, as the bushing die doesn't bump the shoulder. I guess I will fire form first in the .232" gun and then turn the necks, but I will probably have turn turn the necks for the .228" gun to get them to chamber properly. Maybe I should get a regular FL die????? The forming went without problems, only a couple of dimples and concentricity was less than .003". The length is a little more with the Lapua brass over the Rem, will trim all when I can get my chamber dimensions checked.

Thanks again,
Gary

 

[pacificman]

I have heard that with Redding 20VT FL bushing die that if you take the guts out it will act as a bump die to push shoulder back. Looking at this die it seems that it would do just that. Also there is another member with more experience than I who has a very informative post and ideas. I hope this link works as it is at the bottom of page two in this section.





http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3778708.0

 

[MFG_BOP]

Thanks guys for that!

pacificman, I want to buy a new neck turner coz I couldn't reach in one go the desired thickness. Lots of brass removed. What do you think is the ammount of brass someone can turn with tool steel cutter and carbide cutter till it wears out? Also, correct if I am wrong, K&M doesnt make angled cutters to match shoulders. Another way around it I can turn the neck while the brass still has its original .224 diameter neck up to the shoulder so when I neck it down to .20, a little of the cut will be "transferred" to the shoulder, if you can understand me. I like annealing just a step before the FL sizing, which is the last step for me before loading.
I work with the 223 down to the VT cos the brass is cheaper, waaay cheaper, and it is a time I can get rid of wife and son as well. Fortunately we have access here in NZ to ADI brass, which has a smaller flash hole diameter (.068 / .070 if I am not mistaken) supposedly to give less ES.
Thanks for the kind words.
Regards
MFG

 

[pacificman]

I have both K&M and 21st Century neck turning tools. Seems that 21st Century is the only one making angled cutters for turning into the shoulders. I e-mailed K&M about angled cutters and no they do not make angled cutters. I bought the carbide cutters for both K&M and 21st Century as I don't think you would ever wear it out. I have made one pass on the .223 brass but seems there is too much bite and things did not go as smooth so I make two cuts to achieve a 12 thousands neck. I thought about getting the K&M cutting mandrel for future do-nuts but when looking at the cut into the shoulder with the 21st Century cutter I don't think I'll ever need it. My cut looks about 1/16 into the shoulder and looks great. I am not too computer smart but will try to post some pictures.

 

[Varmint Shooter]

I have the 21ST Century neck turning system, with both 23 and 30 degree cutters. Cutters are angled and make
a smooth cut into the shoulder. I have turned the necks with the 23 degree cutter before FL sizing, with the
20VT die, or after FL sizing with the 30 degree cutter. 223 brass being formed into 20VT using 221 Remington
form dies.