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How do you like your Howa???

  • Thread starter Thread starter BigDMT
  • Start date Start date

BigDMT

I noticed Howa is selling barreled actions for really reasonable prices. Wondering if any of you have experience with them and what your thoughts are?

I've only ever shot one Howa rifle that a friend had. It was a 308 with an Axiom stock and he was using factory ammo. Shot ok, but with using run-of-the-mill factory ammo, it really didn't tell me what the gun might be capable of doing.

Really curious as to what the trigger quality is and what type of aftermarket parts are available for triggers, stocks, bolt upgrades, etc...?

Thanks.
 
I had a HOWA in 204.. Mine had the Hogue stock. Didn't really care for it.. Changed the trigger, still after 5-7 shots at the range the groups seemed to open up. I was never really happy with it.. Sold it and bought a Savage 12 in 204..
 
I bought two barreled actions, one with a heavy varmint barrel in 223 bedded in a Bell & Carlson stock and another I bought December, in 308 with standard barrel (which I intend to remove and replace with a 6mmBR or 6.5x47 aftermarket barrel).

I have done lots of research on the Howas, and there is much to like (flat bottom receiver, integral recoil lug, long action screw engagement, one piece bolt (not brazed), forged action and bolt, M-16 style extractor, vent holes in bolt directed to mag well, bold disassembly without any tools, 3 position safety, and as you found, cheap).

Since you are interested in aftermarket, there are Timney triggers available. Note recent Howas use the HACT two stage trigger, while earlier models use a single stage.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/12/howa-offers-upgraded-2-stage-trigger-plus-dbm-conversion-kits/

Depending on your expectations, the Howa triggers are often seen as better than most. A Timney will no doubt be best.

If you want a turn-key bolt, see Pacific Tool & Gauge. http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/howaperformancebm.htm
More stuff here. http://www.webshop.roedale.de/index.php?cat=c125_Howa-Tuning.html Navigate around on this site. There are mag kits (which have a design that is preferred to some of those made here in the U.S.), as well as one chassis kit, and another one upcoming. The person who runs this place is Pete Lincoln and can be found on Snipers Hide. He is an ardent supporter of Howa and can tell you a LOT.

Short Action Customs sometimes has trued Howa actions on the shelf. Most will tell you the actions don't need much truing and are quite accurate to start with.

For my 223, I bought the Howa detachable mag kit. A very lightweight polymer trigger guard (not heavy duty, but fine for me), and 10 round detachable mag for a grand total of $97. Cheap, it takes literally 90 seconds to install, and it works.

Stocks are harder. XLR and Roedale make chassis. Bell&Carlson, McMillan, Manners, all make stocks, and StockysStocks often has some Manners in stock, with no waiting. Either for stock Howa inlet or CDI mag kit. There are some laminates you can get for the Howa.

Standard Remington two piece bases will fit, but a one piece is Howa only. I bought mine from Murphy Precision. Stainless steel (black) or titanium. Very nice piece. Threads are American, not metric.

Barrels must be cut with metric threads. Some people recut the Howa action and barrels to American, but I personally would not do that.

Speaking only for myself, I very much like the Howa, and while I did just acquire a Savage, it was only because it presented some features no other action in that price range could offer. For everything else (that is not a custom action), it is Howa for me.

Note, Howa is revising their distribution model in the first quarter of 2014. If you want one, and are having difficulties, please PM me. I am not an FFL.

http://www.snipercentral.com/howa.htm (pretty sure this has the older trigger).

Phil
 
I've done a couple of custom builds on Howa short actions - one several years ago with a Bartlein in 6XC in a McM A2 stock, and am just finishing up a 260 Imp 30* on a new SA with Howa's new HACT trigger - matter of fact, it's sitting on a chair in front of a heat vent in my dining room as I type this. I bedded the bbl'd action into a McM A5 this evening, and will blast & CeraKote it tomorrow.

Phil has mentioned several of the positive features of the Howas, and I can confirm that, together with a LA 1500 that I built as a 280AI, none of the actions I've dialed-in & checked needed trued. What they do need is a lathe to remove the factory bbls - or at least, the chromemoly actions do. I've never been able to break a factory CM bbl loose, and have had to cut a slot in the bbl shank right up against the receiver face to relieve the pressure, and was then able to screw the action off the bbl by hand.

I've often thought that if Howas had the selection of aftermarket parts that M700s do, there'd probably be a bunch more of them on firing lines. One of the biggest issues for me was the lack of reasonably priced DBM, which has just recently been addressed by PTG's new units, priced at $119. I just finished hand-inletting an expensive McM adjustable A5 for this DBM, and it wasn't too hard, though I also had to do some machine work on the rear of the action's magazine well in order to let the AICS mags fit up into the unit to latch, and to give cartridge rims room to slide up for enough to be pushed into the chamber by the bolt. Simple enough to do with a mill, but might be a bit tedious to accomplish with hand tools.

Whatever - I think the Howas are worth working with.
 
Check out my comments on this thread...apart from a suppressor, hand loads and a bedding job (which I do regardless) it is all factory.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3827577.msg36297990#msg36297990
 
Thanks for all the great input so far. Looks like I might have to put one together. They definitely have a lot of appealing features to me.
 
I built a 30-375 Ruger on a Howa 1500 and enjoy the gun and it is hooting well I am not done with my load development, the temps here in MN lately have not been amenable to comfortable shooting.

I purchased two new CM Howa 1500s in 30-06 for $329 plus shipping to be used as donor actions I found this was cheaper than buying barreled actions. http://www.gunsamerica.com/986275654/HOWA_Model_1500_RIFLE_30_06_CAL.htm. With shipping the total was $710 not bad for two actions.

I will probably shoot one of them in their native form to see how it shoots and if it shoots well who knows if the action will be a donor.
 
wwbrown said:
I built a 30-375 Ruger on a Howa 1500 and enjoy the gun and it is hooting well I am not done with my load development, the temps here in MN lately have not been amenable to comfortable shooting.

I purchased two new CM Howa 1500s in 30-06 for $329 plus shipping to be used as donor actions I found this was cheaper than buying barreled actions. http://www.gunsamerica.com/986275654/HOWA_Model_1500_RIFLE_30_06_CAL.htm. With shipping the total was $710 not bad for two actions.

I will probably shoot one of them in their native form to see how it shoots and if it shoots well who knows if the action will be a donor.

Funny you mention that caliber because I was actually contemplating building a rifle with a Howa action based on the 375 Ruger. Probably going to go with the 7mm-375R. Then maybe later down the road, build a 30-375R.

I currently have a 338-375R on a stainless Rem 700 wearing a Brux barrel. Shoots the 250gr Berger Elite Hunter bullets with awesome accuracy and devastating power all while having a level of recoil that is manageable without a muzzle break.

I've always been a fan of flat bottom receivers with integral recoil lugs like the Ruger M77. Although the M77 Tang is one of my favorite hunting actions, The Howa gives similar characteristics for considerable less money to start and appears to be gaining a following that is prompting manufacturers to produce more aftermarket parts. The Ruger pretty much is what it is and your best bet is to just modify what you have because the aftermarket parts are not only few and far between, but not much of an improvement over what the factory supplies.
 
flatlander said:
Phil has mentioned several of the positive features of the Howas, and I can confirm that, together with a LA 1500 that I built as a 280AI, none of the actions I've dialed-in & checked needed trued. What they do need is a lathe to remove the factory bbls - or at least, the chromemoly actions do. I've never been able to break a factory CM bbl loose, and have had to cut a slot in the bbl shank right up against the receiver face to relieve the pressure, and was then able to screw the action off the bbl by hand.

I've often thought that if Howas had the selection of aftermarket parts that M700s do, there'd probably be a bunch more of them on firing lines. One of the biggest issues for me was the lack of reasonably priced DBM, which has just recently been addressed by PTG's new units, priced at $119. I just finished hand-inletting an expensive McM adjustable A5 for this DBM, and it wasn't too hard, though I also had to do some machine work on the rear of the action's magazine well in order to let the AICS mags fit up into the unit to latch, and to give cartridge rims room to slide up for enough to be pushed into the chamber by the bolt. Simple enough to do with a mill, but might be a bit tedious to accomplish with hand tools.

Yes, standard practice to cut the blued barrels off. It is why I bought my barreled action with the cheapest barrel/caliber Howa had. The word is that Howa blues the barrel and action when assembled. The bluing compound gets into the threads and effectively welds the piece together. The lathe method is reported to work very well as you stated.

Some detachable mag kits call for removal of the action material at the front. If your mag could be made to fit by removing that nub of steel at the rear of the action, that is great. I think it is somewhere around .100", that has to come off, but don't quote me on that. A mill would make short work of this. For my budget 223, I used the Howa mag kit, and it needs no action modification. But, even though the Howa mag and AICS 223 mag are both polymer, I expect the AICS to be of notably higher quality. It should be, it costs nearly 2x as much.

Phil
 
I wanted a HOWA action for a custom build, but I wanted to have practice 'accurizing' a commercial off-the-shelf rifle, low and behold a sale on a Weatherby Vanguard series 2 got me my action. (30-06)

Love the action, I'll keep the trigger set at factory specs, its very good. I'll ditch the barrel soon.
Standard barrel for the 30-06 model:

Shoots 1/2 MOA with a decent load, BUT the muzzle diameter is 0.562" (remember its a .308 bullet...)

It would be a great hunting barrel, 5 rounds no problem, but the barrel heats up quickly and recoil is messy
with a rifle that light.

My problem: Who ditches a barrel that shoots 1/2MOA? Sure the rifle was less than $400, but this one is messing with my firearm morals...

-Mac
 
The only thing I can think of about Howas that's less than ideal is that bolt lift requires more effort than either M700 or M70 actions that I own. Whether you're shooting off rests or a bipod, this is a handicap compared to the Remington or Winchester. We shoot movers in a couple of practical rifle matches, and the amount of effort required to open the new Howa's bolt on an empty chamber is enough to throw you way off-target, especially when it's moving and you need to re-aquire it for the next shot.

Granted, I grind & turn the factory knobs off my M700 bolts and thread them for oversize/extended knobs, and eventually will do so with this new Howa I've just finished. But even then, I expect the stiff bolt lift to be detrimental in practical matches where time is a factor. Running the bolt may eventually lighten the lift a bit, but it's probably more a case of a stiff striker spring, and I've yet to work at figuring out what sort of tool or tools are required to disassemble the Howa's striker assembly to replace the spring. Dave Kiff tooled-up to produce custom one-piece Howa bolts, but surprisingly, they look to have a knob very similar to the factory bolt's knob, and aren't threaded so this issue could be easily remedied. It's not the bolt knob's shape I don't like, it's the fact that you need a slightly longer bolt handle to give more leverage when opening & closing the bolt.
 
I did a .223 barreled action just before Christmas into a B&C stock I had. Got the 24 inch heavy varmit barrel. 5 shot groups of less than 5/8 of an inch are the norm. I have nothing bad to say about it, adjust the HACT trigger to 3 lbs and go have fun.

I also did a 20 practical on a Weatherby Vangaurd 223 that now has a 26.5 inch Shilen barrel, Timney trigger set to 2lbs and a Boyds thumbhole stock. This gun will shoot tight groups, way under a half inch when I do my part.

BigDmt I'm also looking at doing a Howa based 7mm-375r gun. What reamer are you looking at, the Dakota? For the Barrel I want about 26 inches at a number 4 or 5 contour. The boyds stock for me is comfortable light and cheap plus easy to get. Thats a winner in my book, and I have 3 of them.
 
Dennis,

I too had concerns about the bolt lift, but given the Howa was my first bolt action rifle ever, I did not know what was normal. This thread indicates that the force needed to lift the bolt, at the knob end, is 8.2 lbs., when cocking the gun.

http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/rifles/41604-howa-1500-stiff-bolt-action.html

Another person told me that for whatever reason, cocking the gun with an empty chamber seemed to take more effort than with a fired case in the chamber. That makes no sense to me, but maybe it was just getting easier through use.

I measured the firing pin spring pressure. I did this removing the firing pin assembly. I drilled a small diameter hole in a thick block of wood. Large enough for the firing pin to go through, but small enough so the shoulder of the firing pin assembly rested on the wood. I placed the wood on the bathroom scale, zeroed the scale for the tare weight of the wood, and then applied pressure down on the firing pin assembly until it reached a point that was the same when cocked. The total pressure was about 18 - 19 lbs. I don't know if that is normal, heavy, or what, but it was hard to stay accurate due to pressure from my hands and arms varying as I exerted pressure.

You may want to read this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-513415.html

The bolt handle is a little short, and having it longer would alleviate some closeness to a scope and reduce effort. This won't change the force exerted at the action, so tendency to move off target will not change.

Phil
 
So I got a chance to handle a heavy barreled Howa 308 with the axiom stock today at a local pawn shop. First off, forget that stock... Worthless.

But the action... Very nice, especially for the money. Looks like a Remington 700 on top and a Ruger M77 underneath. Best of both worlds really. But it has the 700 beat by a long shot in the extractor department and the Ruger beat for smoothness. Not a huge fan of two stage trigger, but not bad. I just think two stagers should stay in the tactical world. Felt like a really nice AR15 trigger like the RRA.

Overall, I think Howa is a top contender for most value for the money a guy spends. Really a lot of quality components with all the bells and whistles for a fraction of the cost most manufacturers charge. And to top it all off..... THEY LOOK REALLY GOOD TOO! :)
 
I really hope the Howa delivers for you. Please let us know how it goes. I will do the same when my two are done and make it to the range. - Phil
 

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