How do i keep the group together?

[ShtrRdy]

In the attached picture are two groups that have four shots overlaying each other and a fifth shot that opens it up quite a bit. I'm thinking it is something I am doing but I don't know what. Please let me know what you think might have happened.

On the top target it was the fifth shot that dropped down and right. On the bottom target it was the forth shot that dropped down. I'm shooting free recoil with a 6PPC bench gun.

On the same day most of my other five shot targets were a 'blob' of inter connected bullet holes from 0.206" to 0.315" at 100 yards.

 

[Stumpy1]

Free Pizza and Beer?

Sorry that is actually not helpful, but I will be looking for better answers to your question.

 

[jpmimproved]

If your other groups are 0.206 to 0.315”, this largest group in the image is less than .010” larger than your next biggest group. I don’t believe the pattern shows anything other than your other 5 shot groups show a better shape than these. Do these low “flyers” overlap where any of your other groups had shots impact?

 

[Ccrider]

Looking at your bullet holes, I don’t think your rifle is in tune. Assuming it is, shoot better.

 

[coldboreshot]

In the attached picture are two groups that have four shots overlaying each other and a fifth shot that opens it up quite a bit. I'm thinking it is something I am doing but I don't know what. Please let me know what you think might have happened.

On the top target it was the fifth shot that dropped down and right. On the bottom target it was the forth shot that dropped down. I'm shooting free recoil with a 6PPC bench gun.

On the same day most of my other five shot targets were a 'blob' of inter connected bullet holes from 0.206" to 0.315" at 100 yards.

Are these true 5th shots in each sequence or your total of each group? If these are the last (5th shot) in each group's sequence, you might have been rushing each final shot to finish each group by, getting off the gun or trigger too quickly, not finishing follow-thru.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Looking at your bullet holes, I don’t think your rifle is in tune. Assuming it is, shoot better.

^^^^^^^

 

[ShtrRdy]

Are these true 5th shots in each sequence or your total of each group? If these are the last (5th shot) in each group's sequence, you might have been rushing each final shot to finish each group by, getting off the gun or trigger too quickly, not finishing follow-thru.

The fifth shot I mentioned is for that particular 5-shot group.

Regarding getting off the the gun too quickly, since I am using a free recoil approach how does a shot get thrown if I move when the shot goes off if I'm not touching the rifle? (I do believe this can happen I would just like to understand why/how)

 

[ShtrRdy]

If your other groups are 0.206 to 0.315”, this largest group in the image is less than .010” larger than your next biggest group. I don’t believe the pattern shows anything other than your other 5 shot groups show a better shape than these. Do these low “flyers” overlap where any of your other groups had shots impact?

I'll check

 

[ShtrRdy]

Looking at your bullet holes, I don’t think your rifle is in tune. Assuming it is, shoot better.

What do I need to be looking into to shoot better?

 

[afrench]

Are you using a joystick style front rest? Are you releasing you grip while firing?
Then again, you could be just out of tune.
Maybe get another BR shooter to shoot your gun with that load and see if there is any difference.

 

[Sandstorm]

Add some powder..its not really in tune...a little powder.

 

[JFrank]

What do I need to be looking into to shoot better?

I'm not so sure it's out of tune, two groups with low right shots? That might have me reviewing my table manners.

 

[Sandstorm]

or that..too

 

[Fuj]

All of the above.....

What components used ??

 

[jelenko]

The fifth shot I mentioned is for that particular 5-shot group.

Regarding getting off the the gun too quickly, since I am using a free recoil approach how does a shot get thrown if I move when the shot goes off if I'm not touching the rifle? (I do believe this can happen I would just like to understand why/how)

Could you describe what you are actually doing with the rifle? 'Free recoil' can be in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ebb]

I don't want to hijack , but would someone please explain the out of tune aspect and how one could look at a bullet hole and know? This sounds like something we all need to know including the OP.

 

[coldboreshot]

The fifth shot I mentioned is for that particular 5-shot group.

Regarding getting off the the gun too quickly, since I am using a free recoil approach how does a shot get thrown if I move when the shot goes off if I'm not touching the rifle? (I do believe this can happen I would just like to understand why/how)

Looking at your two posted targets, these two flyers indicate a relative shot placement outside each group. According to your post, earlier on the same day, you shot relative group sizes. Could you tweak your load to tighten the body of your groups? sure, but these two targets indicate to me, mechanical or bio-mechanical interference. Perhaps even subconscious. I'm not behind the rifle and I don't know how your setup is so I cannot arrive at any particular conclusion. I do second a motion offered by one of the other contributors here that suggested, have another person who shares your expertise to shoot your rifle on the same setup and review the results. Off the top of my head, I would be looking for inconsistent trigger pull since you state your shooting free recoil. Another contributor asked if you use a joystick rest. EXAMPLE; I can't hold my joystick during a shot. It throws the round.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I don't want to hijack , but would someone please explain the out of tune aspect and how one could look at a bullet hole and know? This sounds like something we all need to know including the OP.

He is shooting at 100 yards. He is shooting a 6PPC. I am sure he has read the numerous posts made on various Forums about how well a Short Range 6PPC combination should shoot.

I have always believed that the game is about barrels, bullets, and tuning. Most of the other stuff that everybody always talk about, (aside from reading conditions), is simply widow dressing.

you can go to any Region Level Match, or even a National Event, and true, there will always be a certain percentage of shooters who are at that magic “.200 and below” agging capability”. But it doesn’t take very far down the page untill you start seeing Aggs made up of groups that look just like what the OP posted.

The usual comments…..”I must have missed that condition”. “My bags aren’t alined perfect”. Everything but the simple truth…….The Rifle ain’t working.

Why does nobody want to admit that. Simple. Arriving at, and maintaining a competitive tune is possibly the most difficult aspect of Short Range Benchrest.

I have always adhered to the methods Tony Boyer perfected. Find a load combination that you KNOW will work, and stick with it. If a barrel will not shoot it, you have to decide how much powder, how many primers, and how many bullets you are going to waste trying to find something it likes.

After I “break in” a new barrel, I can tell within 25 shots if it is staying on the Rifle. It’s the same with bullet lots. You have got to know if the combination of components can be competitive.

80% of short range Benchrest is in the Rifle. Shooters who don’t believe that don’t know much about Short Range Benchrest. They refuse to believe that the latest barrel they just spent this side of $1000 getting put on just isn’t up to the task. Or the latest lot of bullets they just received all seem to want to avoid each other on the target.

I never had an opportunity to attend one of Tony Boyer’s schools. I know several who have. The very first thing he would do is anylized the capability of their Rifle. Then he would be brutally honest with them.

“This Rifle is not going to cut it”

I have mentored several shooters at Tomball this past year, two are now shooting in Matches and are NBRSA members. I do the same thing, (we are talking score, not Group), I shoot their rifle and give them an honest assessment as to its capabilities. If they have one of the top bullet makers bullets, and if they have a top notch barrel, we can work on a tune. If it refuses to cooperate, It’s time for the hard facts of Benchrest.

As I said in a previous post. Benchrest is not that difficult. Being competitive is.

 

[avidflyer]

He is shooting at 100 yards. He is shooting a 6PPC. I am sure he has read the numerous posts made on various Forums about how well a Short Range 6PPC combination should shoot.

I have always believed that the game is about barrels, bullets, and tuning. Most of the other stuff that everybody always talk about, (aside from reading conditions), is simply widow dressing.

you can go to any Region Level Match, or even a National Event, and true, there will always be a certain percentage of shooters who are at that magic “.200 and below” agging capability”. But it doesn’t take very far down the page untill you start seeing Aggs made up of groups that look just like what the OP posted.

The usual comments…..”I must have missed that condition”. “My bags aren’t alined perfect”. Everything but the simple truth…….The Rifle ain’t working.

Why does nobody want to admit that. Simple. Arriving at, and maintaining a competitive tune is possibly the most difficult aspect of Short Range Benchrest.

I have always adhered to the methods Tony Boyer perfected. Find a load combination that you KNOW will work, and stick with it. If a barrel will not shoot it, you have to decide how much powder, how many primers, and how many bullets you are going to waste trying to find something it likes.

After I “break in” a new barrel, I can tell within 25 shots if it is staying on the Rifle. It’s the same with bullet lots. You have got to know if the combination of components can be competitive.

80% of short range Benchrest is in the Rifle. Shooters who don’t believe that don’t know much about Short Range Benchrest. They refuse to believe that the latest barrel they just spent this side of $1000 getting put on just isn’t up to the task. Or the latest lot of bullets they just received all seem to want to avoid each other on the target.

I never had an opportunity to attend one of Tony Boyer’s schools. I know several who have. The very first thing he would do is anylized the capability of their Rifle. Then he would be brutally honest with them.

“This Rifle is not going to cut it”

I have mentored several shooters at Tomball this past year, two are now shooting in Matches and are NBRSA members. I do the same thing, (we are talking score, not Group), I shoot their rifle and give them an honest assessment as to its capabilities. If they have one of the top bullet makers bullets, and if they have a top notch barrel, we can work on a tune. If it refuses to cooperate, It’s time for the hard facts of Benchrest.

As I said in a previous post. Benchrest is not that difficult. Being competitive is.

This is NOT a smartass comment….but you never addressed the original question… I see this all the time, someone says look at the bullet hole it’s not in tune, but no one’s ever written a good explanation. What dont you like about the bullet holes? Not the group formation etc.

 

[ohlongarmisle]

In the attached picture are two groups that have four shots overlaying each other and a fifth shot that opens it up quite a bit. I'm thinking it is something I am doing but I don't know what. Please let me know what you think might have happened.

On the top target it was the fifth shot that dropped down and right. On the bottom target it was the forth shot that dropped down. I'm shooting free recoil with a 6PPC bench gun.

On the same day most of my other five shot targets were a 'blob' of inter connected bullet holes from 0.206" to 0.315" at 100 yards.

Whenever that happens to me it's usually the last shot, as i always shoot 5 shot groups, I had our rangemaster at the pd watch me in most instances the shot wasn't as deliberate as the first four, but markedly hurried. See my groups with the 17 hornet the last group was .435, my first .290 very similar to the group you posted.