How accurate should i expect my 6br to be?

[bam1015]

Being rather new to both this kind of shooting and to reloading and not too mention i have no one near me shooting this cal or into accurate shooting i need to know the answer to a couple questions....#1. I see many people that talk about .1 or .2 groups at a 100 yrds with a 6 br but is it expected a good gun shoot those kind of groups everytime they shoot a 3 shot group? or just occassionally? I have been working on loads the last couple weeks and have found a pretty sweet combo that i layed 2 groups one after the other last weekend that were basically one ragged hole. I quit for the day thinking i really had it!! went out today with some of the same loads as well as some new ones with better conditions and couldnt duplicate it and was very frusterated untill i came home and went over the data and when i compared similiar loads my " Sweet load" never had a bad group but still not the ragged single hole from last week. So question #2. is ....can you really see a drastic difference in groups by just 1 or 2 gn differences in powders? i was shooting 32, 32.5 and 33 grains of Varget all using 70 gn Sierra HPBT bullets and was trying different OALs of which i found my rifle really likes a .010 to .015 jump to shoot good....but there was quite a bit of differnce in spreads in the powder loads.....my absolutely best groups were 33 gn. Varget and jumping ..... .010 to .015 on the OAL
Im sure there is some shooter error in there but when i compared like loads it looked a little less like shooter error than i originally thought.
ive posted pics of my target so you can get the idea there is some of my 22-250 mixed in also.....Any imput would be greatly appreciated.....

 

[TheSnake]

I am interested in what others have to say here but are you new to reloading period or just new to reloading the 6BR?

 

[jp]

I have found that the Sierra 70gr is a good varmit bullet, when sorted by og. My son has shot in benchrest matches with it and did good. Won a few. But when we wanted to get the one hole accuracy we went to custom 68grs and it would shoot that way as long as the shooter did his part. We use the H322 powder 28.7grs, fed 205m and Lapua brass with the neck just cleaned up. And we lightly jam the bullets. You may be already doing this. Varget is not the best for our rifle. And we lightly jam the bullets. With Varget we tried several loads no go. Groups ranged from 1/2" to 3/4" I find that just 2 tenths of a gr. makes a difference in accuracy. there will be some that say your scale is off that much. Yes it is possible. I know that 28.5 did not shoot as well as 28.7.. And consistent neck tension is necessary for accuracy.

 

[NorCalMikie]

IMHO, with 33 grains of Varget, you're running your load a little on the high side. You're not leaving yourself any wiggle room. If it was me, I'd be backing off to about 27grs. and be working my way back up to the sweet spot. And make sure you only change "one thing at a time". Same bullet, same OAL and adjust "only" the powder charge. and only adjust in .01 at a time. One full grain at a time will have you chasing your tail.
A "5" shot group that can be covered with a dime on a regular basis is pretty normal with my 6BR. Regular/normal to the point of being boring. :
All my loads are jammed .010 into the lands.
Varget will get you real good accuracy but it can be picky at times. But don't give up on Varget till you've worked it till you can't work it anymore. And jumping from one powder to another won't help if you havn't worked your loads to death.
Check the 6BR load data and see what other powders the shooters are using. Some guys sware be Varget but there's other powders that also work real well.
This is a "5 shot group" and it's pretty regular without too much work. And some days are not as good.

 

[in2deep]

Quickest way to figure out the best powder charge is to load up 3 rounds of each load at 2 or 3 tenths increments and shoot a simple "ladder test" shooting each load at a different aim point. As your charges increase check for pressure signs of course for safety. If the winds are favorable you will quickly see what loads group the best and If winds are really light and steady shooting the test at 200 yards will give you a nice graphic and you can quickly find the sweet spot.

As mentioned your load seems VERY HOT and possibly dangerous and my primer pockets will noticabely loosen at less than even 30.6 so be careful. Try working up from about 28. grains and usually before 30.2 you will have some good groups around a certain area of charges and this is your sweetspot.
If your powder scale is reading correctly at 33 grains your brass must be getting hammered and primer pockets should seat "REALLY" easy now and primers probably very flattened so check for pressure signs and feel for hard bolt opening which is another caution sign.

One or two grains difference when near max charge is getting dangerous.... I hope you meant one or two tenths instead of one or two grains- yikes. Since there is nobody around to watch out for you be careful and cautious till you figure out the basics.

 

[ReedG]

I'm on my third 6 BR barrel, all 1:14 or 1:12 twist for light bullets. Not sure how experienced you are or if you are shooting over windflags (mandatory) or not, but I would not be pleased with these groups. My last barrel had 2,981 rounds through it, all recorded in my spreadsheet, and the average of all groups (some 3 shots, most 5) was .397". The largest group in that list was .755" and the smallest of .037". The first barrel, my first 6 BR, a rechambered 6 PPC "reject", had 2,582 rounds through it and the group average is .519". Some of these last groups were fired before I built windflags. Actually had groups over 1" in the beginning when I was learning about jam, seating depth, etc.

Please be sure you are checking your cases and primers, bolt lift, etc. for any sign of high pressure. Every chamber is different. My short-range competition load with 68-gr. Bergers is 34.2 gr. with no sign of pressure in shooting thousands of them.

Looks like you are having some fun testing loads and I believe you will only improve as you go. To shoot Varget (which I think is best) you will have to weigh each charge and keep meticulous records of everything you try and/or change. If your barrel is 1:14 twist, the best groups I had with "hunting" bullets was with 55-gr. Sierra Blitz Kings and Benchmark.

Enjoy, keep working, and beg, borrow or steal (well, maybe not steal!) some windflags and learn to live by them.

 

[bam1015]

wow, thats some good help...to answer a few of you guys, yes, im new to reloading in general but i do my homework and am very carefull when weighing even double checking....as for the hot load as i said i do my homework and used the load info on this websites 6mmBR cartridge guide which shows several favorite loads with varget like 68 bergers with 34.2 and 74 bergers with 33.3 and 75 VMax with 32.8 so i knew i was on the hot side but didnt think tooo hot ....now as you guys say if 33 is truly too hot some changes need to be made on this website...lol.....i will admit i dont know what primer flattening looks like but i added a photo of one of the spent cartridges so you guys can see,if you can tell by pick , i would appreciate a bit of a schooling on what to look for in stressed cases.....as for dropping way down to 28 gn or so i will say this ,unless it picks back up again there is a noticable accuracy drop from 33 to 32.5 and even worse when i drop to 32 so id think it would be lousy at 28, so maybe i need to be using a different powder? Thanks for the help as ive said i have to put alot of faith in you guys ,i really dont have anywhere else to go.....

 

[Frankr]

looking at the targets. I would say need wind flags..the groups show signs of being moved by the wind.
some loads are more sensitive to slight changes in the wind,more than others.
I have shot some good groups with varget and 65-70 gr bullets but found it was never consistant. could never keep the light bullets in tune in any of my 14 twist BR's..
some have had good results with N135 , so i have tried it again and kind of have had the same results i have allways had with it..but I'm going to try and run a tony Boyer type tune on it when the weather warms up.
I have had GREAT results with a cci 450 primer and RL10x powder behind just about any custom 65-68 gr bullet and the 65V-max for varmint hunting. the RL10 runs a big tune window from 29.0 Gr's to 31.0 Gr's..and it seems that right about 30.5 Gr's at .010 off touching. just flat out shoots from 30 deg F to 95 deg F with maybe just slight tweaks to keep it humming..and has produced some very good wind bucking loads, because i don't really know how to read the flags, i just shoot. i try not to shoot i big pick up or let up but thats kind of it.

The only other think i can say is CLEAN the barrel..make sure you don't have any powder fouling even after you have cleaned it some times if you did not get all the fouling out the next time you shoot it you could post some big groups. I'm big on having a clean bore..

Here is some RL10x load,targets..two from one rifle and one from anothe new rifle and the new rifle target has a shot out to the left i think was just a slight flinch on my part.. but its been the most consistent powder with 65-70 gr bullets..but i still shoot other stuff and allways keep tuneing..but RL10 has shot in three different rifles i have had. and a few others.. i think its like varget is to the heavy bullets.
All 5-shot groups.
The bottom target is 30.5gr RL10, 66gr fowler..200yrds at a match..hey i had three there in a hole and the wind pushed two out..O well thats how it goes..maybe one day i will learn how to hold off.
Now dont go and buy up all my RL10 powder.I know how you guys are.lol

 

[NorCalMikie]

What you'll find is a sweet spot at a lower powder charge and then at a higher charge. I pretty much stick with the lower charge. That way I've got room to work if the temp changes.
33Grains at 40* is one thing but that same charge at 90*?
Working your way up from 27 or 28 should show you some pretty good results. And like what was said about 3 rounds at different powder charges? 8) Work your way up from there.

 

[bam1015]

ok guys,i bought some 70 gn nosler BTs today...couldnt find the sierra 70s and after seeing another thread about how uneven they measured (mine did too) i didnt want them anyhow. also bought a bullet comparator to help with my oal...loaded up a bunch tonight starting with 28 gn Varget and doing sets in .5 gn increments to 30.5......i know i should be doing .1 increments but i figured i would take the best perfoming of these and next time i go out ill do .1 on each end to fine tune...supposed to be sunny but brisk tomorrow . ill let you know how it goes.

 

[bam1015]

Total and complete wasted day.....shots were all over the place ...until a rookie mistake was found.....lesson learned never and i mean never go shooting without checking the gun out first...i cleaned it last night and even checked the scope mounting bolts......guess what i found after shooting 2/3rds of my ammo? front action screw was fingure tight(or should i say loose..lol) tightened everything up and groups shrunk considerably but the session was ruined by then....can anyone give me the reason why loose action screws mess with accuracy? i mean ive always known it does but why? the barrel and action work as one and the scope is mounted to the action so it seems it should shoot even without a stock...but it wont..id just like to know the science behind it.....and i will ALWAYS check this before going shooting from now on...lol

 

[BoydAllen]

Just a suggestion....Buy a box of 68 gr Bergers. Set the seating depth so that the rifling marks on the bullets' ogives are about half as long as they are wide. or a little less. Use Federal primers, and 30.5 grains of 133, perhaps more if the weather is cold. Buy a roll of surveyor's ribbon, and some 1X2s, cut the wood about 4' long and sharpen one end. Tie and tape a length of the ribbon to the top of each "wind flag", trimming its length so that it will just clear the ground when they are in place. For 100 yard shooting, try one each at 5, 25, 50 and 75 yards. How is your rifle bedded, and what sort of rest, bags and bench are you using? It all matters.

Note: Fixed typo

 

[TheSnake]

Just a suggestion....Buy a roll of surveyor's ribbon, and some 1X2s, cut the wood about 4" long and sharpen one end.

4 inches tall? Thems be mighty short flags! Man you guys are tough.

 

[areaone]

Try H4198 with llight bullets in a 14 twist. works well for me. I think the 6 br is one of or the best overall for simplicity of reloading and shooting, works for paper or varmints or Deer size game. H322 works for a heavier bullet 70-80 gr., I can expect teens or better in 3 shot group with any of my 6brs most of the time if the wind is not to active.

 

[Tozguy]

Bam,
In my opinion, with a 14 twist for accuracy at 100 yds, I would only work with flat based bullets, of the best quality you can find. That way I believe you have a broader window of loads to work with and your results might be more repeatable.

 

[fdshuster]

bam: Many unknowns here. Who's barrel? Don't expect a Shaw or factory barrel to shoot like a Bartlein or Krieger. What type of stock? Don't expect benchrest competitive group sizes if using the typical factory sporter stock off the bench. Shooting off a solid concrete bench? Or a wobbly wooden, or a bi-pod. Using a high quality front rest with the proper rear bag? Using wind flags & know the basics of using them? Have you tried match grade bullets like the before mentiond Berger 68 gr. #24411? As good as they are, some hunting bullets will not shoot like match, especially the customs like Bart's, Fowler's, etc. What scope and are you sure about its' reliability? Don't always trust them to be problem free. Watching for changing light conditions, when the sun goes in & out of the clouds? It makes a big difference.

These questions are just for starters.

 

[MarkS]

bam1015

I have or have had many 6BR barrels. I like N135 with bullets up to 80gr and Varget for bullets heavier. See http://www.6mmbr.com/Schronce600.html. A+ on what Boyd said, bullets into the lands. Be sure to back off load and work up. Get some 68 or 80 gr Berger's or any custom benchrest bullets. Berger's 87gr Hunting VLD, and 90gr BT are very good long range bullets. For varmint bullet I use 70gr Sierria Blitzings and Hornaday 87 Vmax.

Mark

 

[Tozguy]

Reed and Boyd,

I really feel for a newcomer who is trying to test loads while learning to read flags at the same time. Learning to read flags only meant something to me once I had 100 % confidence in my rifle and scope, ammunition, and bench technique. Otherwise how can you be sure just what the wind is doing? At the point Bam is at, wouldn't it be best to test during good conditions at the beginning or end of the day where you can 'get away' without flags? Reading flags is obviously important when you have to shoot when your relay is up. Even seasoned competitors miss conditions sometimes so I would reserve wind and mirage doping for a later stage of Bam's learning curve.

Because Bam does not seem to have a mentor or coach, he has to play the odds. As far as loads go, I would choose a bullet weight and style that is 'forgiving' ie. a flat base 65 to 70 gr. bullet so that he can work below the ragged edge of maximum loads. Hand made BR bullets can be mail ordered and are not much more expensive than mass production ones and they would eliminate any doubt about consistency.

I would put bench manners ahead of wind flags on the learning curve. It might be worth a trip to the closest BR match for Bam to see how its done.
Of course having a well prepared rifle and scope is fundamental. It has to be for load testing to mean anything. Can we assume that all is well at that level?

 

[SS427]

I think flags are still required, even in calm conditions. I wouldn't expect anyone new to be able to "read" the wind and figure out where to hold. But certainly they can monitor the flags and make sure they shoot in calm or consistent conditions. Without the time constraint of a match, you can sit there for quite a while and wait for the right conditions provided you are patient.

 

[BoydAllen]

Wilbur Harris once wryly noted that it is amazing how the mere placing of a few wind flags downrange can make the wind start to blow.