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How accurate a semi auto shoots

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To think about it. I am surprised how good a semi auto shoots. To begin with not a match chamber. We don't have special dies. Don't use custom bullets. The brass is re sized to min so it will cycle. Don't turn necks. Don't trickle powder. Don't jam. When the round is chambered the bolt picks it up from the mag then it slams it up the feeding ramp against the top of the chamber then home. Is this round still in consentricity?
Then a good one still shoots sub .5 moa.

Just for fun, What do you think?

KK4
 
10 years ago I purchased a Ruger Mini 30 with a heavy barrel chambered in 6mmppc. The rifle has an aftermarket thumbhole stock which has been bedded and trigger work as well
I reload on a progressive press with drum style powder measure
Most of my shooting is at woodchucks, when I do shoot at paper this rifle makes me smile.
 
but i do use special dies and do have a match chamber and i do use quality bullets with custom bbl's.....0.5 ain't nothing....how about less than 0.25 ??
 
It does surprise me. Rounds in the mag are being hit against the front of the mag from recoil, possibly affecting the tip of the bullet or seating depth depending on neck tension. The round is manipulated pretty roughly on its way into the chamber. My chamber is 223 Remington SAAMI spec minimum. I do use an electronic scale for every round, and use good FL dies and micrometer seater (Forster), with Sierra MatchKing bullets, and can do 1/2 MOA fairly regularly (near 1/4 MOA on occasion) with good setup and concentration. Good barrel (Krieger 22" bull 1:9) and trigger (Geiselle Match), but still. By the way, I have measured rounds after being slammed home in the chamber and they don't seem to be much affected from a concentricity perspective.

Phil
 
A couple of years ago a guy from work brought his "zombie gun" to the range one day- it was a pretty tricked out ar-15. I've never been into them but my wife decided that she couldn't live without one and so I bought her one. I figured it was a fairly inexpensive way to keep her interested in shooting and gave her something to plink with at the range.

This was before everything went crazy so you could still buy .223 ammo so cheap that there wasn't much point in re-loading for it. She liked shooting it and everything was pretty mundane until the poo hit the fan and you couldn't find ammo anywhere so we started loading for it.

That's when things got interesting. A lower-end run of the mill ar-15, a DPMS Sportical to be exact, with a cheapo 4x scope that was lying around. Ringing the gongs out to 600 was actually feasible. Anything in between was boring, people who'd never shot before were smacking the steel out to 200.

Semi-autos can shoot- buy one and have a ball.
 
A while back JB did an article in either Handloader or Rifle magazine where he damaged bullet tips and the (lack) affect on accuracy
The only real affect was when he seated bullets in the case upside down
 
I shoot a stock Steyr AUG for 3 Gun competitions. One of our local matches has steel out to 600 yards. I couldn't hit it at first with cheap factory ammo, but I started hand loading for it and it easily shoots under an MOA. 1/2 MOA on a good day :)

I use mixed range brass from god knows where, basic Lyman dies, and whatever powder I can find. It just has a super basic Redfield scope. But 600 yards is the only challenge now - anything closer is too easy.

I think we get tied up splitting hairs with reloading. Sure, you split enough hairs and you eventually go bald, but sometimes shaggy is good enough. Start trying to hit an X ring at 1000 yards and .5MOA vs .25MOA might make a difference, but at the ranges and targets many auto-loaders shoot, its a moot point. And I've seen some sick auto-loaders in full size rifle cartridges that can hang with the good bolt guns.

Auto loading changes some things when reloading, but doesn't eliminate the potential for accuracy by nature. Most guns will still shoot MOSTLY where you point them.
 
Back in the '60's and '70's when military shops match conditioned 7.62 NATO M1 and M14 rifles for competition, the best of them would easily shoot under 4 inches at 600 yards as tested in accuracy cradles using good commercial .308 Win. match ammo. Not too shabby at all with MIL SPEC chambers and neither bolt nor receiver faces were squared up with the chamber axis. At 100 yards, they'd shoot about 1/4 inch; under 10 inches at 1000.

As one of the first to shoot the M16 in competition at the 1971 Nationals, I and other military team members discussed the 22 caliber 52-gr. Sierra match bullets we handloaded for them. The thought of heavier bullets with faster barrel twists might be OK at ranges past 600 yards. But in spite of all the advances in bullets and barrels, the 7.62 NATO chambered semiauto service rifles (Garands and M1A's, specifically) typically out scored the 5.56 NATO ones at long ranges. Which is why the US Army got the NRA to classify the AR10 in .308 Win as a "service rifle" so they could use it in NRA competitions. The US Army Team did well in the 2012 Nationals with their AR10's winning and setting records.

Biggest detriment to best accuracy with semiautos is they've got a few extra moving parts that need to go back into exactly the same place for each shot. Few, if any, semiautos have their bolt faces squared up so reloading their fired cases doesn't work for best accuracy. Bolt guns have squared up everything and fewer moving parts that are easier to relocate repeatably for each shot.
 
It has been my experience semi autos can be just as accurate as bolt rifles. it also has been my experience that semi autos tend to loosen up faster than bolt guns. Therefore their accuracy does not last as long as a bolt rifle. Semi auto rifles are generally capable of sub .5 moa for several hundred rounds and capable of sub 1. moa for several thousand rounds. Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.
Nat Lambeth
 
Yes, they can be extremely accurate in the right hands. Here is a 5 round group with a green mountain bbl shot at 200 yds chambered in .220 Thunderbolt last spring. They are shots 11-16 through a new bbl, fed from a mag with iron sights.


JS
 
It can be an amazing thing. And not.

I have a couple auto loading 22 rimfires that shoot 1 moa. Now THATS amazing. Dirty little buggers that they are.
 
Can they shoot? oh yes… But if you want the accuracy, you'll likely have to work at it of course. And a premium barrel will get you a looong ways.

This is from a JP barrel. My first 3 shots with Horandy ammo, 300y. I was afraid to shoot two more, lol!!:
 
JP Enterprises… I think they manufacture them themselves. I just ordered it from them, and put it on an upper receiver.

Here are their barrels: http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.1_barrel.php

They come with a brake (threaded… incase you live in a state where they think threading the barrels kills more people, that's a draw-back), the BCG, Gas block, and heat sink. I don't remember if a gas tube came with it...

I'm very, very, very happy with mine. this is the one (and likely only time) that I actually went with a premium barrel. Usually I work my loads around what ever barrel my rifle was born with.
 
I would highly doubt that they make their own barrels. I certainly don't know that for sure, but I doubt it. How are they classified as a premium barrel? Is it the price tag?
I'm not trying to rip on JP, just trying to find out supporting info for product claims.

JS
 
hmm… dunno. I say shoot 'em an e-mail!

Though I'm the one using the adjective "premium", perhaps others may not? So I use that classification based on two sources:

1) reading up for several months, every piece of intel I could scrape up (Shooting forums such as here, 3-Gun competition reports, etc.) before making a purchase
2) personal experience

I selected JP from from among Shilen, Krieger, etc., because (after a lot of research):
1) they had a stellar reputation (in what I researched)
2) their engineering side seemed to me tone of highest expertise
3) they had the cal I wanted (6.5 Grendel) ready to go.
4) The price was a tad better than everyone else's
 
Does not sound like it to me
"JP Supermatchâ„¢ barrels are manufactured to our highly exacting specifications"
 
Ok, here is the reason that I ask such a seemingly antagonistic question; I ask why anyone would consider any barrel as a premium barrel. I certainly don't have any opinion on a JP barrel one way or the other. I know that to most shooters, the barrel brand is mostly taboo. Cut rifle barrels are widely considered to have a longer "accuracy life" than a button barrel, however, they are both very capable of delivering the same results. The pic that I posted earlier in this thread was produced with a $140 stainless blank. It has about 1000 rounds through it so far and continues to deliver that kind of accuracy to 600 yds. I have another just like it to slap on the rifle when that one wears out.

I bring up this question because over the past several years I have had the opportunity to cut and chamber just about every barrel brand and always take a mental note of how the barrel cuts in the lathe and the kind of finish it ends up with. They are all for the most part about the same with some minor exception.

Button technology really hasn't changed in about 60 years. You push a carbide button through a bore and you get a button barrel. Every button barrel manufacturer does it this way. Most of the difference lies in the final finish of the bore provided that the bore is gun drilled and reamed properly. I can see a big difference in surface finish between some of the button vs cut rifle bbl due to the inherent way that the carbide button makes its way down the bore. If lapped properly, a button barrel can be as smooth as glass...for the first 300 shots. With all of this said, I continually see excellent results from barrels with machine marks in them all the way down the bore. I have cranked out many Wilson and Green Mountain barrels that all have faint button tracks down the bore, however the bullets don't seem to care much, so says the x ring.

A Kreiger, Brux, Bartlein, & Benchmark barrels are all cut rifle high quality blanks capable of producing long term accuracy and all cost around $325 to $375 due to the higher production cost than button technology. All of the others, Hart, Broughton, Green Mountain, Shilen, Wilson, JP, etc. are also capable of extreme accuracy, but there is a huge fluctuation is cost between all of them. Green Mountain costs $130-140, conversely, Broughton sells a button blank for a whopping $375.

No that I have stated all of this, I ask, what makes it a premium barrel? I used to think that I could only win a match with a Kreiger until I started to win big matches with Pac-Nor, Douglas, and Green Mountain. I have also done pretty well with Kreiger, and Bartlein. There, I have laid all the cards on the table. Educate me.

JS
 
Yeah, I kinda already knew all that.

The JPs are lapped, had the contour I wanted, and that's what I was after foremost. Seems you don't get that till you are into the suppliers that are general referred to as "premium" or "precision", or whatever.

Understood on the price differential… I guess some shops just get away with it??
 

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