Hornady 180 Red Tips

[M99]

Last week I was doing some throat measuring on a new 7mm barrel for 3 different bullets. First the Berger 180 Hybrids, which are my usual bullet, then the Sierra 183's which are looking pretty good to me recently, and finally the newer Hornady 180 ELD-M's. For the Bergers and the Sierras, all went as usual and I found the throat dimension and calculated my cartridge length to the Ogive pretty easily. I always do the measurement several times with each bullet type and several different bullets, to make sure I am getting an accurate measurement. However, when I started measuring with the Hornady, I couldn't get the same measurement with 3 different bullets. They were different by .010 or more. With the Bergers and Sierras they were always within .001 or so, which is within the error factor measuring that way. I first thought that the Hornady bullets must vary in length from their base to Ogive, but they measured consistently using the same measuring gauge, etc as I use measuring the overall cartridge length to Ogive.

The only explanation that comes to my mind is that the bullet does not actually touch the lands in the barrel at the same spot on the Ogive that it touches the measuring adapter. So I am speculating that the bullets might have a slightly different angle to them along the Ogive, which is causing a different measurement from one bullet to the next using the standard bullet and throat measuring tools most of us use.

Anyone have any better thoughts on what is going on? I would have assumed that I was measuring wrong, but the other two types were measuring consistently as they always had.

 

[#40Fan]

I recently discovered the same thing. Three different 6mm Sierra bullets and two different lengths to the lands. But, they were all repeatable. Found out the tool used doesn't represent the actual Ogive of the bullet.

If you are seeing variations on the Hornady bullets, I can only surmise that they aren't all constructed the same. If that was the case, they'd be filed in the junk drawer or shot for foulers.

 

[DaveTooley]

I think there are too many variables to say something is wrong with the Hornady's.
If they measure the same ogive to base then they should measure the same in the barrel. Same process just different tool. There is something different with how the Hornady's interact with your new chamber.

 

[#40Fan]

The way I read it, is he is getting repeatable results with a single Hornady bullet, but switching to another Hornady bullet he finds a .010" variance. That would sound like a difference between the bullets and not how it is interacting with the chamber. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

 

[M99]

The way I read it, is he is getting repeatable results with a single Hornady bullet, but switching to another Hornady bullet he finds a .010" variance. That would sound like a difference between the bullets and not how it is interacting with the chamber. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

You are reading it correctly. Yes, if I use the SAME Hornady Bullet, it will measure the same when I check it several times. Maybe the typical .001 variation with 5 times being measured. Using different Hornady bullets from the same 100 piece box of new bullets, and the measurement will change .010 or as much as a bit more. This is repeatable if I keep using the same bullet even if that bullet measures differently than the previous one. They all DO measure the same from bullet base to the point on the Ogive that the measuring Gauge touches it.

The bullet's do NOT touch the lands at the exact same point on the bullet Ogive that they touch the Gauge most of us use with the Dial Indicator or Micrometer. So there is some distance on the Ogive that is different from bullet to bullet unless someone has a better explanation. As I mentioned, this does not happen when measuring the Berger 180 Hybrid's or Sierra 183 ELD-M's, so I am convinced that I am measuring correctly and have done this many times over the years.

 

[DaveTooley]

M99

Do you have other caliber inserts for your base to ogive measuring tool? If so use them to get measurements at a different locations then compare. I know Hornady runs one press at a time for any given bullet so bullets coming from different dies is unlikely. Also measure the diameter at the junction of the body and ogive.

 

[M99]

Good idea Dave. Thanks. I'll do that and see how that measures. If the angle is changing as I am speculating it may be, then using a smaller diameter measuring gauge should result in a greater variance.

 

[M99]

I just tried what Dave suggested. I used a series of different size gauges to measure base to Ogive so that they would each touch at a different spot the way the lands vs the gauge does. My apologies to Hornady. I couldn't find even .001 difference from one bullet to another testing a series of them out of the same box. The different gauges of course measured different distances, but in each case, all bullets measured the same with each gauge. So back to my drawing board figuring out why I can't get consistent measurements to the rifle lands, when I can with the other bullet brands. Its not a error in the bullets themselves though.

 

[Down South]

I have .30 cal 208 & 225 ELD-M bullets and measured several hundred of each base to ogive and OAL and the lots that i have are some of the most consistent measuring bullets i've ever measured from any manufacturer. Pretty crazy to think the measurements are that good with some of the cheapest bullets you can buy.