Hornady 140gr. ELD for 6.5...issues. Anyone else?

[RPR 6.5 slave]

I recently purchased 3 boxes of Hornady 140gr. ELD match bullets. I opened the boxes to sort them by weight. After I started to to reload these rounds I found that there were issues with seating depth and they were inconsistent, measuring at the the Ogive. After further measuring I found that the bullets I had were two different measurements. Overall length was very close 1.375-1.377 but the measurement from base to the ogive was .750 one one lot# and .768-.770 on the other lot #. Has anyone run into this problem? I spoke to Hornady and they want me to send some in for examination. I ended up loading some to try them. I chose to load the longer of the 2. I shot the best starting ladder test group I have ever seen out of my RPR 6.5CM. Can anyone tell me what the proper measurement at the ogive is?

 

[Auto-X Fil]

How are you measuring base to ogive? I get about 0.665", but that's attempting to measure to the full diameter. It will of course be longer to some smaller diameter.

 

[Auto-X Fil]

Ok, with Hornady bushing "5-26", which is 0.2545" ID, I get 0.751" base to ogive, +/- 0.001" on 10 bullets.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I have 2 diff lot numbers of them here too, with diff measurements also. I fyou want them I'll post them, one lot actually longer as a whole.
Not sure how much satisfaction you'll get from them being 2 diff lot #s.

 

[Raptor]

RPR slave, I know exactly what your talking about. I bought one box at Scheels to try out and shot them in my Ruger PR and they shot great!! I measured them off the ogive just to see what the difference was from the old AMAX (If there was any) and I happened to write it down. Like I said they shot great!! I then picked up another box of them and decided to check the ogive again. To my surprise they were close to .025 difference in the ogives. When I shot them my groups went from a .3 to .5s to an inch+!! The only other thing I did was swap my Vortex to my MK4 Leupold. SOooooooo I either have a bullet problem or a scope problem. I hope to get out tomorrow and see which it is. I did pickup another box and they are the same ogive measurement as the fist box and I will test with them also.....

 

[rifleman700]

FWIW I measured two different lots of the 143 eld-x ( not 140 eld ) and they are identical.

 

[AckleymanII]

I recently purchased 3 boxes of Hornady 140gr. ELD match bullets. I opened the boxes to sort them by weight. After I started to to reload these rounds I found that there were issues with seating depth and they were inconsistent, measuring at the the Ogive. After further measuring I found that the bullets I had were two different measurements. Overall length was very close 1.375-1.377 but the measurement from base to the ogive was .750 one one lot# and .768-.770 on the other lot #. Has anyone run into this problem? I spoke to Hornady and they want me to send some in for examination. I ended up loading some to try them. I chose to load the longer of the 2. I shot the best starting ladder test group I have ever seen out of my RPR 6.5CM. Can anyone tell me what the proper measurement at the ogive is?

Nothing unusual about your findings. Sort for base to ogive length, rock on. Learning curve is a bitch. Next lot number you buy will be different, so buy a 1000 at a time, sort, you are good to go.

Now understanding why this happens is key so you can be realistic in your expectations. The company may have one machine running the bullet with only one point up die, but I doubt it. Setting up point up dies is exactly like adjusting your full length sizer to size your brass for the chamber size. The more you screw the point up die down, the further down toward the base of the bullet the ogive moves. Of course the operator's experience is critical.

The shorter base to ogive measurement will produce a lead level that is further up bullet also, and this has an effect on the balance point of the bullet that your barrel may like or dislike.

linkage on the press or machine can cause variations in Base to Ogive length, jacket thickness, along with thickness of the lube.

Likely that Hornady may have more than one machine running a bullet with the base to ogive length set to be within a certain spec. I would bet that they sort bullets off of each machine as a different Lot #. Machines wear, dies wear and you have to be aware of this when you decide to shoot a "production" bullet vs a bullet that is made with a well trained elbow on a low production Rockchucker or RCBS A-2 press.

So, sorting bullets should be the norm for a serious precision shooter. If you do not want to sort bullets, then buy bullets made from a guy that has a well trained elbow. You will still have too check your bullets, any way you go, especially if your rifle is real picky on distance from the lands. Experimenting with a 0.000-.003 change in base to ogive should be part of your load development...how wide is the tune window.

 

[Zero333]

This might be a problem if the same lot varied that much, and even then, sorting is not hard.

2 different lots having different measurements from base to ogive is normal.

Lots of times I'll seat 2 different lots with out adjusting the seating die and cartridge base to bullet ogive remains the same, only OAL changes.

 

[RPR 6.5 slave]

Nothing unusual about your findings. Sort for base to ogive length, rock on. Learning curve is a bitch. Next lot number you buy will be different, so buy a 1000 at a time, sort, you are good to go.

Now understanding why this happens is key so you can be realistic in your expectations. The company may have one machine running the bullet with only one point up die, but I doubt it. Setting up point up dies is exactly like adjusting your full length sizer to size your brass for the chamber size. The more you screw the point up die down, the further down toward the base of the bullet the ogive moves. Of course the operator's experience is critical.

The shorter base to ogive measurement will produce a lead level that is further up bullet also, and this has an effect on the balance point of the bullet that your barrel may like or dislike.

linkage on the press or machine can cause variations in Base to Ogive length, jacket thickness, along with thickness of the lube.

Likely that Hornady may have more than one machine running a bullet with the base to ogive length set to be within a certain spec. I would bet that they sort bullets off of each machine as a different Lot #. Machines wear, dies wear and you have to be aware of this when you decide to shoot a "production" bullet vs a bullet that is made with a well trained elbow on a low production Rockchucker or RCBS A-2 press.

So, sorting bullets should be the norm for a serious precision shooter. If you do not want to sort bullets, then buy bullets made from a guy that has a well trained elbow. You will still have too check your bullets, any way you go, especially if your rifle is real picky on distance from the lands. Experimenting with a 0.000-.003 change in base to ogive should be part of your load development...how wide is the tune window.

Thank you for your input, I am relatively new to the precision shooting world and value the knowledge that others have accumulated. I shot one test of the longer bullets and they shot ok. I am in the process of loading for the shorter. I shot the test under different weather conditions, so the small differences may be due to this. I load all my rounds from a Dillon press and Redding comp dies. I will try to play with the seating depth to see if I can dial this bullet in a bit better. I was just shocked that a bullet could be this far .018 away from another of the same. Yes I have learned a valuable lesson. I had ordered the bullets from Midway and when I called them to reorder more boxes they told me that they could NOT guarantee I would get the same lot#. Do you know of any place that will accommodate this request? Thanks again.

 

[pat fulghum]

Yep....My post from a while ago...

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ing-depth-variance-pressure-variance.3904453/

Every box I open I measure the BULLET BTO and adjust accordingly.

I have found 140 ELDS to differ a bit more than hybrids, but within a log the hybrids are dead on. +- .001

 

[RPR 6.5 slave]

This might be a problem if the same lot varied that much, and even then, sorting is not hard.

2 different lots having different measurements from base to ogive is normal.

Lots of times I'll seat 2 different lots with out adjusting the seating die and cartridge base to bullet ogive remains the same, only OAL changes.

I am relatively new to precision shooting and reloading for such in depth tolerances and details. I am learning though (sometimes hard way) I am committed to learning and working through the difficult situations. I just didnt expect the bullets to be this far away from each other. The learning point has been that when I get boxes of the same bullet not to mix them up when sorting for weight. Now I also know to sort for length overall and at ogive. Thanks for the input it is appreciated.

 

[RPR 6.5 slave]

Ok, with Hornady bushing "5-26", which is 0.2545" ID, I get 0.751" base to ogive, +/- 0.001" on 10 bullets.

I am using the Hornady 5-26 also. I am getting the same measurement for one box. The other is substantially longer .768 +/-001. Which is what I loaded after I found the diff. Now loading the shorter of the 2. Weather in MI. is so up and down, so I have to try to pick and choose when I shoot. So I can get close results. Thanks for responding.

 

[vonb]

On a similar note, I noticed they changed the BC on them from .610 to .620 on the 140 ELD. Wonder if this has any bearing on the variations you're seeing?

 

[RPR 6.5 slave]

I was curious also, as I noted before. I ordered 4 more boxes to check measurements on the bullets. I now have the bullets in hand. 2 different lot #'s. 3 boxes of one lot # and one of another lot #. This batch of shorter bullets measures .750" as the other 3 boxes measure .766-.768" @ ogive. Measuring with Hornady's own comparator. 5-26 tool. As I stated in my very first post on this site. I shot the best group ever on ladder test for my 6.5 CM RPR. I was astounded by the results. But I could not duplicate them and I found that the bullets were why. I had my eyes opened by a few knowledgeable patrons of this site. (thank-you). I think that I will take the advise another shootwer gave me. Try a hybrid bullet. I see that I cannot trust some manufacturers, as they are trying to put bullets in my hand regardless of the final results I may get. I may be NEW to this type of shooting.....BUT I am not naive. I learn quick. Thanks to all whom contributed to my learning curve....FOOL me once..shame on you....fool me twice....SHAME ON ME....!

 

[lurcher]

I have found this batch to batch OAL variation with 7mm Nosler ballistic tips and accubonds multiple times