Hornaday seater dies

[GSP7]

What is the opinion of hornaday seater dies. They dont support the case at all, and their sleeve only supports .230 of the top length of the neck.

I have mostly redding dies and have one set of hornaday dies for a 9.3x57. I get big time runout and visualy bent necks sometimes with this hornaday seater.
Im thinking these hornaday seaters are junk compared to a die that supports the body and neck more, like a redding or rcbs type seater. But many others on another reloading site think hornaday seaters are gods gift.... ??? ???

Any thoughts? im thinking of getting a custom made seater from CH4D (any other die makers you can recommend?) My opinion is Hornaday seater is crap. I spend all this time preping brass for this cartrige,9.3x57, then seating the bullet just screws it up

rick

 

[camac]

GSP7 If you check out the article by German Salazar a little while ago on difference in seater dies (see Germans response below - thanks German)). He found that very low neck runout was far more important (ie FL sizing and neck sizing) than seating die. Of course this is providing you have consistant and low neck tension (turned and annealed), square mouths and chamfered etc. I would suggest those that rave about the Hornady probably do all this well. No matter how good the seater though it is hard to correct these issues at seating time. You will find a lot of guys concur wih this opinion and concentrate very hard on neck turning, annealing, neck tension, chamfering etc. These are not only critical for correct seating but also for low velocity spread. Hornady seating dies have a good reputation amongst those that go to the extra effort of doing all this.

However, on seating dies alone - no matter how good the die is, non custom dies are made to fit the largest of chambers so in a match grade chamber there can be a huge gap (and play) between shell and shell holder. Die manufacturers have no choice here. My off the shelf .308 redding competition seater is a classic example of this. The tolerance on projectile diameter is exceptional and the shell fits almost perfectly to my Tikka hunting rifle but goes no where near my match rifles, so unfortunately, where I need it most, the runout is higher. So as above the "ravers" might have a nice fit in their die purely based on their chamber size. A couple of things to try with your Hornady first. 1) ensure the case is pushing right up into shoulder at seating. This may require machining a little off the bottom of die (this does not need to be done super accurately as it is not a critical dimension. Just grind/ lathe/ file a little off the bottom) so the shell holder is not pressing collet up, but rather the shoulder gets pushed up into the "cone" and shell pushes collet up, thus centralising (also helps if you don't fully size necks and leave a little at base of neck). If this doesn't work due to too much play at base of shell you can also try shimming the base of the shell with automobile shim kit (Very cheap). Just trim some shim material to form a small cylinder in bottom 1/2 inch of die (ie 1/2 inch wide strip, rolled into cylinder and trimmed to length to just slip in your die). This is a little fiddly and can move (so keep an eye on it) but I have seen great results from it. I did this for a guy here and he swears by it. Normally a 2-3 thou shim material is plenty (aluminium cans are around 4 thou) Make sure the shell doesn't jam on shim but as little tolerance as possible. If you have low tolerance in the bottom (base) and top (neck) of shell then the shell is in good alignment. It doesn't have to touch all the way.

As far as your last question goes - "recommendations" - I have found you can make most of them work well. Do you (or gunsmith)still have your chamber reamer? If so then call redding they can send you a blank that can then be made to fit perfectly, quite cheaply too. Not a bad option as you can have one die body for a whole family of chambers. I am going to do that for the above .308's. One collet body (curretn factory one) for Tikka, and a new custom one for match barrels. So if one of your other redding dies is same body type this (IMHO) is your best option. Otherwise, as Hornady offers custom shop they might be able to do the same for you. Before going down that road just check the tolerance of the projectile in the hornady stem guide. ie take out collet and drop projectile through guide. A nice fit here (ie doesn't drop straight through) is ideal and worth working with. Redding and Wilson are outstanding in this department (Forster aren't too bad too). A custom seating die cut to your chamber with low tolerance on projectile guide is the perfect scenario.
CAM

 

[357Mag]

GSP 7 -

Howdy !

I personnally think Hornady seater dies are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Ammor produced with them has no noticeable run-out.

I utilize their " Microjust" seater top.... well worth the $$$.

Hornady's bullet seater is of a " universal seater " design, which accepts various differing cases/cartridges with change-out of interior sleeves.
I know they sure have worked out great, with my wildcatting !

Again, in my experience; the HOrnady products are superb.
I've only bought Hornady dies ( custom dies ) my last 3 times I needed some.

Regards,
357Mag

 

[GermanS1]

The article on seating die induced runout is here: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/reloading-seating-die-runout.html

and the article on sizing die runout (is a specific process) is here: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/04/reloading-two-step-sizing-and.html

I actually like the Hornady dies (and the similar Vickerman). The finished low in my test, but the differences were essentially insignificant. Runout is principally a sizing die problem.

 

[GSP7]

Thanks for the article.

Talked to another guy and he says his sleeve engages his whole neck for his 8x57. My 9.3x57 doesnt at all, and the stem looks like its for a .25 cal compared to my rcbs 9.3x62 seater stem

Another thing I noticed , I can role a case on a table and see it roles true, then take that case and neck size it with my new rcbs neck only sizer, then role it on the table again and the neck wobbles. This previously necked up 8mm brass to 9.3 and fired twice.

 

[camac]

GSP7 Certainly sounds like a neck sizing issue if you can "see" wobble like this. Put that on a case gauge and you would be surprised how big runout will be. Also look back last week there were a couple of threads on neck/fl sizing and runout plus Germans other article (as he kindly listed above). I would suggest in the least you try a couple of steps at sizing the necks, but also look into the other suggestions made (e.g. tapered bushings, custom FL dies etc).
CAM

 

[wapiti25]

It sounds to me like you are getting the runout from RCBS not Hornady.