Help with solving horizontal stringing

[cmorsch]

Hello, I have a custom build that I am having trouble with. Its a savage action with a shilen 26" stainless match barrel varmint contour. The issue that I am getting is I am consistently having my string of 5 shots make 2 separate groups, both groups when measured separately are sub 1/2" at 100 yards, but the second group will always be approx. 1-1.2 inches to the left. The groups are also only .25 inches apart in vertical distance when measure at the center line of each. The load that I am working with has a extreme spread of 16.86 and a standard deviation of 7.68. Does anyone have any ideas of what could cause this. Also the barrel and barrel nut are both free floated. Thanks.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Have you tried tweaking the load?

 

[spclark]

Do the two groups form in a consistent manner with respect to the order of shots fired?

What I mean is do shots 1 - 3 go right then 4 & 5 to the left?

Or do they just form two groups in random shot sequence?

What kind of rate are we talking here too; 10 seconds between shots, 30, or "as fast as I can get them off?"

 

[cmorsch]

Yes I have tried changing the load, it happens no matter the powder type, charge weight, and seating depth. I've also tried match primers and regular primers with the same results.

The first two group together, and then after that it gets sporadic. I also wait at least 30 seconds between shots.

 

[xs hedspace]

Scope mount tight? Rings lapped, to eliminate sideways stress? Scope reticle shifting? Tap on side of scope, while on rest, look for movement of crosshairs. Stock bolts tight? Loosen one bolt at a time, look for sideways movement of barrel in foreend, might be bedding stress, need epoxy bedding. Bolt handle rubbing on stock notch? Out of ideas, must rest brain......

 

[FergusBailey]

Are you shooting off a pedestal rest, bipod, or something else? Is the stock forend rigid or flexing? Have you asked another good shooter to try to see what results they get on the target?

So many variables, you need to give more details to get a diagnosis.

 

[Ggmac]

Check front action screw , could be too long and just touching bolt 6:00 lug .
Check scope base screws , bottoming out on barrel threads ? What do fired cases look like , roll them on a flat surface , check for unusual wobble .

 

[Ggmac]

Forgot one , check to make sure front of bolt not touching rear of barrel .
Good luck , who built the gun , reputable smith , bought that way ? What kind of savage action ? Recoil lug bottomed out in stock ? Many many possibles .
Now good luck , keep us posted
Gary

 

[cmorsch]

I was shooting off of a bipod with a rear bag. The rifle is built on a 111 action. I have had others try shooting the rifle also and they had the same thing happen. The rifle was built by stockade gun works. The rings and base are tight and have blue locktite on them. I don't think that the recoil lug is bottoming out, but I do not know how to check if it is.

 

[FergusBailey]

I was shooting off of a bipod with a rear bag. The rifle is built on a 111 action. I have had others try shooting the rifle also and they had the same thing happen. The rifle was built by stockade gun works. The rings and base are tight and have blue locktite on them. I don't think that the recoil lug is bottoming out, but I do not know how to check if it is.

So have you ONLY shot it off the bipod? First thing you need to know is if you isolate the bipod (ie use a solid front rest with a bag), does it shoot better?

 

[Ggmac]

What cartridge? You can use clay to see if recoil lug is bottoming . Its important to eliminate bipod ,as fergus said . Just because its loctited does not mean you do not check it . Bolt hittin back of barrel ? Rear tang FREEFLOATED , on a Savage its very important . Good luck an keep us posted.
When you tighten rec screws , does it rock front to rear ? Blind mag or det mag ? This can be long road , remember only one change at a time . Just incase you make it worse .
Gary

 

[Ggmac]

Was all the work done by stockade ? Did they hand you a complete rifle with bases , scope ,stock , paint etc. What crown did they use , it wont matter I was just curious. One piece mount ( bridge ) or 2 piece?

 

[STP]

Again, what cartridge???

Good at first, then it goes bad... meaning that when the barrel heats up (normal) something is amiss. No contact with the stock when the barrel is larger and longer due to heating?

I don`t bed forward of the recoil lug either, but bedding material must be on the sides of the lug as well as behind it for uniform contact so that no bad vibrations eminate from there. Think "constant harmonics", shot to shot.

Naked or moly coated bullets?

How about a close look at the crown???

The rear tangs on Savage`s "tend" to prefer 0.10 clearance. Is yours touching the stock?

Regards,

Scott

 

[WyoWindage]

Ggmac, you mentioned the stock rocking when installing receiver screws. My M12 in laminate stock is doing that. I put screw in front, near recoil pad, then when putting the rear one in, I can feel the gap between bbl and stock open up. Don't know how much, maybe ten thou or so. There is wear on both pillars so looks like it is locking down ok, but maybe that rocking is stressing the action, or?? Is there a quick fix, or am I looking at a full bedding job to remedy that. Maybe I should start a new thread on this, sorry if in the wrong place. Mod, please move if so. Thanks, Ron.

 

[gotcha]

cmorsh, Try swapping scopes with a scope proven capable of shooting bug holes. Even brand new high $$$$ scopes can have loose reticles. Yours wouldn't be the first.

 

[jsthntn247]

I was shooting off of a bipod with a rear bag. The rifle is built on a 111 action. I have had others try shooting the rifle also and they had the same thing happen. The rifle was built by stockade gun works. The rings and base are tight and have blue locktite on them. I don't think that the recoil lug is bottoming out, but I do not know how to check if it is.

Take your dial calipers and use the other end to measure how far it is from the bottom of the lug to the bottom of the action. Then measure how far it is from the bottom of the recoil lug channel to where the action sits in the stock. That will tell you if the lug is bottoming out. Has this rifle been bedded, sounds like it hasn't and is moving and double grouping. Bedding block or not, I skim bed em all.

 

[tunacan]

The previous post hit the nail on the head. 2 grouping equals bedding issues or lack of bedding.

 

[fdshuster]

I see no mention of wind flags being used, and believe that could be at least part of the problem.

Without flags, have you ever test fired in perfectly calm conditions? If you have, what were the results then? 30 seconds between shots ( again, what cartridge?) with the typical Varmint contour barrel, (like the Remington), is not enough time between shots.

The use of wind flags and buildup of barrel heat is what I would consider.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I would lean to bedding trouble unless you have a scope problem! Check your torque spechs!

 

[Steve Ladino]

Myself being very careful to not damage the bore with even a bronze bristle brush rendered me a never really clean bore. Have you tried sawing a bunch of times with a brush and JB-ing the crap out of it? This type of cleaning took my bore from having to fire several fouling shots to all shots from a clean bore going in the group from 1st. shot on.