Help with ladder test

[46and2]

Forgive me but I don't ever do these ladders.
This is the 2nd firing on this brass, bumped .002. Barrel is broken in. Shot at 200 yards calm conditions.
Looks like 85.3 and 85.6 is a good place to start. I'm curious about 86.8 and 87.1.???
May have had a flier(me) for 86.5.
Maybe I should repeat this test to see if it repeats.
Thoughts?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Use the same target, shoot 2 more at 86.5 confirm the flier(you or not). If they fall in line with 4,6,7 you may have found it. Did the wind change and start pushing shots right?

 

[46and2]

Use the same target, shoot 2 more at 86.5 confirm the flier(you or not). If they fall in line with 4,6,7 you may have found it. Did the wind change and start pushing shots right?

No sir, calm winds today. I watched my flag (and my anti-cant bubble level) all day. Btw, I took my time between shots to cool the barrel

Good idea, I'll shoot the same ladder on the same exact target.

 

[J_idaho]

i would retest 6-9 with 3 shot groups

 

[mgunderson]

More rounds at both locations. Not a fan of the single shot ladder.... it is a little too easy to get it wrong or read it wrong.

 

[46and2]

More rounds at both locations. Not a fan of the single shot ladder.... it is a little too easy to get it wrong or read it wrong.

I noticed that. Mr Alex Wheeler shoots 3 shot ladders.

 

[K22]

Agree with Posts # 6, 5, 4.

With that said, what also got my attention was the 200-yard test distance, "barrel was broke in", and "bumped the shoulder back after 2nd firing".

A 200-yard load development test distance magnifies the wind, mirage, and shooter errors and can increase shot variability that is not attributed to the load making it more difficult to isolate the best load tested.

Depending on much you "broke in the barrel" e.g. bare metal, it may take several shots to establish as a consistent POI, especially if you are aggressively removing copper after each cleaning before conducting each series of tests. I know this goes against "internet gospel" and "the experts" but I have learned this from personal experience.

You may be bumping the shoulder back prematurely and not allowing the case to fully fire form to the rifle chamber. Often F/L with zero bump is sufficient for the first several reloads. Over sizing can affect accuracy in precision bolt rifles.

 

[L.Sherm]

I would retest at minimum of 2 shots.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Providing all shots were made without any error...Shots 1-3 look like a node, then shots 4 and 5 are the transition to the next node which is shots 6-8. Don't worry about shot #5 if it felt good when you made it because bullets at node transition speeds can do weird things. Shot 8 is definitely teetering on the top of that upper node. When they start walking sideways as in shots 9 and 10, you're usually playing close to max pressure of that powder so don't test at the charges of shots 9 and 10 anymore.

 

[46and2]

Providing all shots were made without any error...Shots 1-3 look like a node, then shots 4 and 5 are the transition to the next node which is shots 6-8, but shot 8 is definitely teetering on the top of that node. When they start walking sideways as in shots 9 and 10, you're usually playing at max pressure so don't test at the charges of shots 9 and 10 anymore.

I completely agree!
If you notice a big velocity increase in 10, the recoil definitely felt different.
The reason I went back and did a ladder was 56.3gr shot very well until it didn't. I thought maybe I was on the edge of a window/ node.

Do you think 6 and 7 would be a very small node at this point?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I completely agree!
If you notice a big velocity increase in 10, the recoil definitely felt different.
The reason I went back and did a ladder was 56.3gr shot very well until it didn't. I thought maybe I was on the edge of a window/ node.View attachment 1531130

Do you think 6 and 7 would be a very small node at this point?

I'm thinking #8 might be a flyer. If so then something between #6 and #9 would be it.

 

[Webster]

View attachment 1530949
Forgive me but I don't ever do these ladders.
This is the 2nd firing on this brass, bumped .002. Barrel is broken in. Shot at 200 yards calm conditions.
Looks like 85.3 and 85.6 is a good place to start. I'm curious about 86.8 and 87.1.???
May have had a flier(me) for 86.5.
Maybe I should repeat this test to see if it repeats.
Thoughts?

I seldom shoot a ladder test but when I do I usually actually shoot a group. Must have got a good barrel. There is lot more spread than I would like to see. With my gun I wouldn't see much more than 1.5" spead with a 5 shot ladder. Do you think you have a good bench setup and decent gun control? I test with 5 shot groups. Is the action bedded and the barrel not touching the forearm? I don't mind shooting up a bunch of ammo when testing. How do you handle recoil. That's a big bullet and a big powder charge?

 

[J_idaho]

I completely agree!
If you notice a big velocity increase in 10, the recoil definitely felt different.
The reason I went back and did a ladder was 56.3gr shot very well until it didn't. I thought maybe I was on the edge of a window/ node.

The paper shows 300 win mag is that right?
If so are these compressed loads?
What length of barrel is it?
Double check seating depth isn’t getting effected by to much powder.

 

[46and2]

30 Nosler. About 95% capacity at 88gr.

 

[bozo699]

30 Nosler. About 95% capacity at 88gr.

If it were me I would color my bullets, shorten your distance to 100 yards. Load three of each charge and do a round robin in your low node or middle node or both, I agree with Ned I think at least 10 should be abandoned. I also would put at least 50 rounds through a .22 Rimfire before I started and maybe some in between each robin. Have a calm day to do this if possible and make sure your barrel is fouled in with the bullets your using. Also I would do some dry firing to make sure your rest and bag setup is working for you, your cross hair should not move off a bullet hole if it does your test won’t be valid. Good luck that’s a lot of recoil to manage but it can be done.
Wayne

 

[Ccrider]

What distance do you plan to shoot at?

 

[seymour fish]

I completely agree!
If you notice a big velocity increase in 10, the recoil definitely felt different.
The reason I went back and did a ladder was 56.3gr shot very well until it didn't. I thought maybe I was on the edge of a window/ node.View attachment 1531130

Do you think 6 and 7 would be a very small node at this point?

6-7-8-9 likely node. appropriate width ie about a grain. Reshoot it a couple times

 

[Zero333]

I see 2 good nodes...

85.6 gr & 87 gr

Do seating depth with one or both nodes.

 

[46and2]

I see 2 good nodes...

85.6 gr & 87 gr

Do seating depth with one or both nodes.

That's what I thought. Last night I loaded 5 rounds at 85.6 and 86.9.

 

[lgwatson]

View attachment 1530949
Forgive me but I don't ever do these ladders.
This is the 2nd firing on this brass, bumped .002. Barrel is broken in. Shot at 200 yards calm conditions.
Looks like 85.3 and 85.6 is a good place to start. I'm curious about 86.8 and 87.1.???
May have had a flier(me) for 86.5.
Maybe I should repeat this test to see if it repeats.
Thoughts?

I have better results at 300 to 350 yards.