Help with fireforming

[letronshootit]

Hi All, I have a problem with fireforming that maybe you have an idea on. Only 1 out of the first 3 shells I loaded up went off. They are 6br to be formed into 6brx with 4gr Promo shotgun powder cow and the 1/4 sheet toilet paper. The one that fired looked great, rounded slightly on the shoulder edge but real nice. I know the problem is holding the shell back to the bolt face to get a good primer strike, my misfires have strikes that are light. Since the case headspaces on the shoulder how in the world do I get this right? The primers are CCI magnum 450. I wondered if removing the ejector button, maybe too much forward pressure. I am using a Savage action and trying a new method to save on bullets, powder, and barrel wear. Thanks Ron

 

[L-46]

Easiest way is to form a false shoulder,
L-46

 

[letronshootit]

Thanks, of course that will work!

 

[timeout]

I don't know about fire forming in a Savage action, but I have fire formed in a Panda and a Rem. 700. I was having a ton of misfires with the 700 and that came down to a faulty firing pin spring. I swapped the firing pin assembly from another 700 bolt and the problem was solved. I later got another spring from the gunsmith who reworked the bolt and it was longer and much stiffer to reinstall. I am going to fire form some more with it tomorrow and see what happens. With good neck tension, Rem 7 1/2 BR primers, a case full of powder, and bullets .015" into the lands I found no need for a false shoulder. Now if your Savage continues to balk, perhaps Eric will have a suggestion or two. ;D

 

[wwbrown]

Try seating your bullets way out so yuo have say 0.025" of jam and that should keep the case from going forward before ignition.

 

[effendude]

Wade, He is ising the cream of wheat method, no bullet.

Gotta use the false shoulder method when not using bullets.
Scott

 

[letronshootit]

Yes indeed, I am liking the cream of wheat for fireforming but not for breakfast. I did the false shoulder method expanding the case with a 25-06 neck sizing die then used my 6brx die resizing 1/2 the neck. It fixed all those misfires. Using 10gr of Promo shotgun powder with the c.o.w. and the 1/4 sheet of toilet paper producing nice looking cases. No more bullet, powder waste, plus less wear on the barrel. I suppose its not wasted using the bullets but I want 6brx performance not 6br performance out of this gun. Thanks again, Ron

 

[bigedp51]

Have you tried rice instead of Cream of Wheat?

Add a little brown suger to the case with the rice and you can have a hot breakfast.

Some people say the COW method can be hazardous and adds to global warming.

 

[timeout]

Wade, He is ising the cream of wheat method, no bullet.

Gotta use the false shoulder method when not using bullets.
Scott

Old age is getting the best of me, I missed where he mentioned COW. Or perhaps, having milked cows in my youth, I subconsciously skimmed over COW!

 

[lpreddick]

i have ffed hundreds of cases with the cow method and discovered a potential problem that will cause problems when working up loads. the heat seems to "cook" the cow and it collects on the inside of the shoulder! i can usually see a white deposit with good lighting. removal is not easy! an angled stiff wire or steel hook twisted inside the case and chunks of the stuff will come out . left in and case volumn is affected. using less cow and more cotton or shot buffer may reduce this problem.

 

[4xforfun]

Yes indeed, I am liking the cream of wheat for fireforming but not for breakfast. I did the false shoulder method expanding the case with a 25-06 neck sizing die then used my 6brx die resizing 1/2 the neck. It fixed all those misfires. Using 10gr of Promo shotgun powder with the c.o.w. and the 1/4 sheet of toilet paper producing nice looking cases. No more bullet, powder waste, plus less wear on the barrel. I suppose its not wasted using the bullets but I want 6brx performance not 6br performance out of this gun. Thanks again, Ron

You stated that you "size 1/2 the neck". Is that the proper amount for a solid head space, or are you just eyeing them up? I always dissasemble my bolt so I can feel when the headspace is right. Basicly I start long and keep screwing the die in , bit by bit, till the case fits TIGHTLY in the chamber. It takes considerable effort to close the bolt on a case. Just make sure to use lots of lube on the bolt. I have used this method with COW.

That being said, I STRONGLY prefer to shoot bullets while FFing. I do the above and then jam 105 berger BT's hard. Perfect brass, and the most accurate gun I shoot!!! I FF while shooting informal "F" class, Tactical type shooting on steel, and plowing ground hogs!!! Every highly compeditive 1000/600 BR shooter that I know uses false sholder along with shooting bullets.



Just my .02,

Tod

 

[bigedp51]

i have ffed hundreds of cases with the cow method and discovered a potential problem that will cause problems when working up loads. the heat seems to "cook" the cow and it collects on the inside of the shoulder! i can usually see a white deposit with good lighting. removal is not easy! an angled stiff wire or steel hook twisted inside the case and chunks of the stuff will come out . left in and case volumn is affected. using less cow and more cotton or shot buffer may reduce this problem.

Fillers inside the case dates back to firing smokeless powder in older straight walled black powder cartridges. In a modern bottleneck case there is a danger of a blockage occurring at the shoulder neck junction with Cream of Wheat type fillers. The manuals recommend using Dacron fluff in bottle neck cases to prevent this potential blockage hazard.

A false shoulder and using Dacron fluff or jamming a bullet into the lands with a moderate load will fill out the shoulder without using breakfast cereals.

The only advantage to using COW is in the summer when the mosquitoes are bad and practicing your wing shooting to see how many mosquitoes you can bag. :

 

[letronshootit]

4x4for fun, I finish sizing with the 6brx die by sizing until I can just close the bolt. 1/2 way down the case is just an observation to describe. Big Ed, if cow is a problem caking up ok, maybe more tp and skip the cow, I know of one shooter on here that uses just shotgun powder and tp. Thanks for the comments

 

[lpreddick]

another danger with synthetic filler: i was testing a load that left 1/4 to 1/3 of the case empty and i knew full cases were more efficient, so i filled the space with shot buffer(ground plastic). BAD MOVE! the buffer melted and plugged the bottle neck and pressure went through the ceiling. the bullet hit the target but the bolt was LOCKED DOWN, the sako extractor broke off and the piece is embedded into the extraction rim of the case and the primer pocket is LARGE and the flash hole is wide open. replaced the extractor and all was well. a little bit of this bulffer over cow is safe.

 

[letronshootit]

Checking my cow with 10gr Promo powder and TP I find no residue. That is great, the powder and load must be on a good balance with the cow to not leave trace material in the cases. Thanks for the info on what to watch for.

 

[wwbrown]

Wade, He is ising the cream of wheat method, no bullet.

Gotta use the false shoulder method when not using bullets.
Scott

I missed that!