Help with Downloading.22 Hornet and .223 Remington

[Riflecat]

Hello, I am once again faced with a reloading dilemma. I have read many threads about downloading cartridges, and wish to do that for the .22 Hornet and .223 Remington. What want to do seemed feasible at first, so I decided to get the powders I have seen mentioned most often in this context: H4895, Blue Dot, and Trailboss. Unfortunately, I have seen none of these and believe they are all permanently discontinued or at least not likely to be resupplied in the near future. Nor have I been able to find several other powders I have seen referenced like Red Dot, 700X, Universal Clays, or Unique. I am truly at a loss, so what are some suitable alternatives that are actually available on the market now?

To understand my use case, I have a .223 bolt action with a very light barrel. I don’t hunt so this would be for target shooting only, but even with factory loads the barrel heats up so fast that I can’t even shoot a 5-shot string without it getting hot. Not to mention, in my light rifle it is louder and kicks more than I prefer. I would like to shoot it to a max of 200 yards.

The .22 Hornet would also be used for targets only, preferably at 50 yards. I would like to use it at my rimfire range, and to do that I probably need to keep the velocity with a 40 or 45 grain bullet down to 1500 fps or less. .22 WMR and 17 HMR are not allowed on the 50 yard range, so I probably need to be at Stinger level or lower. Can I even go that low or even lower with jacketed bullets? I would prefer to use jacketed instead of cast if possible. My dream would be to keep it subsonic like standard velocity target grade .22 Long Rifles. In case you think I’m crazy, I love shooting .22 Rimfire but want to exercise a few centerfires I have as well.

If it helps, these are some of the powders I can currently find: Hodgdon Titegroup, Titewad, Longshot, High Gun, Perfect Pattern, and Lil Gun; Winchester 296, 231 and 244; Accurate 1680; and Ramshot True Blue.

Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[brokeasajoke]

I've found 1680 to be good for hornet. Titegroup can be used to download and hodgdon lists it for 223. I have used it for my 22 K hornet and I did stick a bullet somewhere around 2gr I believe but it's been a minute. If you can find cast 22 bullets that might be the best for downloading. I've decided for me to stick with full loads for my hornet and 223 and just use the rimfires when that's what I'm looking for. I never got good accuracy with trail boss in my hornet or well anything for that matter. Sometimes I have to ask myself why am I downloading and what is to gain by it as I think about it often. Here's an article you may find interesting. http://www.jamescalhoon.com/tobee2.php

 

[JSH]

^^^^^^^
Downloading other than for recoil I don’t see as feasible anymore. I mean right from the start a primer is close to .10 anymore. I have heard some say haha I have old primers I only paid pennies for, well it is replacement cost I look at today.
I downloaded my Hornet with a cast bullet it was very accurate after some tinkering. I won’t mention the powder as it was discontinued years ago.
I just buy good match RF ammo and go on anymore.

 

[Todd Earhart]

55 over 15gr. 4227 in 223. Just under 2000 fps and surprisingly accurate.
Todd

 

[Riflecat]

I appreciate the answers so far, but am disappointed that this exercise might not pan out like I hoped. I am primarily a Rimfire shooter and have many .22LR rifles and pistols, so I am not trying to replace them. My issue is that I do have some centerfires that I still wish to use, but have no need for full power loads, and they are actually counterproductive to my needs. I would love to shoot my Hornet at 50 yards instead of 200, and I would like to shoot my little .223 more than three times before just sitting and waiting for it to cool down.

Brokeasajoke, those James Calhoun articles are what had me dreaming of those wonderful Blue Dot loads. I did see the limited Hodgdon data for Titegroup in the .223 and that is one I might buy to try, as it is available locally. I wish they had data for the Hornet as well.

JSH, I understand the economics argument, but I don’t think anything to do with shooting Is economical any more. When I was in the sporting goods business just 10-15 years ago, we sold primers for $20/brick and shotgun shells for $4/box. I don’t believe those days are ever coming back.

Tood, I appreciate the info on 4227 and will have to look for some. Was that a published load somewhere?

 

[Todd Earhart]

Yes, it was a published load. Actually 15.5 was the max load. I can't remember where I found it but I will look. I was looking at .223 subsonic loads when I came across it. It was not near subsonic but it did work well and seemed like something you was looking for.
Todd

 

[JSH]

My point being , for me and what is in my stable. If I have a center fire I shoot it as such. I downloaded for quite some time years ago. I look at replacement cost of components.
Never owned but one light weight 223, 3-5 shots and vertical stringing, so I know what you mean. I fixed mine with a new barrel.
No more recoil than a standard Hornet has I would just go an accuracy load and go on.
When I down loaded mine I used some ancient primers that I would never use or trust other than for tinkering.


I stepped into the air gun puddle. Am about waste deep now. Not a replacement for 22RF but an alternative that easily surpasses off the rack 22RF rifles. No chasing match ammo.

I won’t even start on my thoughts on components. You mention $20 a case, I think you mean a brick/1000. I refer to a case as 5000. None the less yeah things were some what cheaper. Hell I have some powder, 2400 and H110 that was $2.69 a lb. just used the last of a $40 8lb jug of 4895.

 

[SSL]

Your thoughts on shooting your .22 Hornet on the rimfire range might be problematic. Is the restriction on your range a matter of velocity or lack of using jacketed bullets (or both) on the rimfire ranges?

 

[DGP4]

Shooter's World Blackout is perfect for .22 Hornet and light loads in the .223 Remington. For Hornet and .223 load data go to their reloading manual online

Reload Data - Shooters World

Reload Data - Wholesale Ammunition | Smokeless Powder | Greenville SC

shootersworldpowder.com

In .223, I have found 21.1 grains of Blackout shoots 50 grain BTHP bullets into a 5 shot clustr at 100 yards out of my recently purchased Savage 110 Varmint.

 

[6mmbra Dan]

I don't know if this pertains to long guns in 22 hornet but i have a T/C contender in 22 hornet that shoots extremely small groups at 50 yards with 12 to13 gr of LIL gun and a 40 gr Hornady vmax.The key here is to only use Remington or Winchester 6 1/2 primers. Hotter primers pressures tend to push the bullet forward before powder ignition takes place.LiL gun also produces extremely low pressure. the main key here is the primers

 

[jcm800]

Titegroup would be my first choice with a powder coat cast bullet. Single digit SD's are not uncommon with mouse fart loads. Works great in just about anything.

 

[wkndwarrior]

I had developed a 223 load with red dot for fox, it was surprisingly accurate and fun to shoot at the range - but red dot is a real pain to meter. If you find some red dot let me know and I could dig up my data.

 

[jds holler]

I used to do 12 gr. of 4227 in my 222 with 45 gr cast. It was two or three MOA at a hundred. Never did try jacketed with that charge.

Used 4 gr. of Green Dot for my Bee, and it was about like 22 LR with that same cast bullet.

It would be interesting to try jacketed, and I might. I've got a lot of gunshow unknown seconds and such that might be worth wasting a primer on. jd

 

[Dimner]

I appreciate the answers so far, but am disappointed that this exercise might not pan out like I hoped. I am primarily a Rimfire shooter and have many .22LR rifles and pistols, so I am not trying to replace them. My issue is that I do have some centerfires that I still wish to use, but have no need for full power loads, and they are actually counterproductive to my needs. I would love to shoot my Hornet at 50 yards instead of 200, and I would like to shoot my little .223 more than three times before just sitting and waiting for it to cool down.

Brokeasajoke, those James Calhoun articles are what had me dreaming of those wonderful Blue Dot loads. I did see the limited Hodgdon data for Titegroup in the .223 and that is one I might buy to try, as it is available locally. I wish they had data for the Hornet as well.

JSH, I understand the economics argument, but I don’t think anything to do with shooting Is economical any more. When I was in the sporting goods business just 10-15 years ago, we sold primers for $20/brick and shotgun shells for $4/box. I don’t believe those days are ever coming back.

Tood, I appreciate the info on 4227 and will have to look for some. Was that a published load somewhere?

Lemme look up some data that I have. If I were in your shoes I'd start with Unique. I use it all the time with cast bullets in the 223 and back when I had a hornet I tried it out there as well.

My fav steel plink target/fifty yard load are those little Speer 45 grain flat nose in my cz 527 in 223. I also had good luck with Unique and the 55gr bulk Hornady BTSP. I'll post more in a bit with load data

 

[Dimner]

Sorry, until I get to a laptop this is the best I can do. This is from my cz 527, i think 18 inch barrel maybe 20 inch. I'll edit this post later tonight.

Data columns are:
Bullet---Bullet Weight---Powder--- Charge Weight---Temperature when shot---Velocity

Hornady SP #2230 45 Unique 4.20 57 1464.3
Hornady SP #223045Unique4.50 571567.7
Hornady SP #223045Unique5.00 571694.7
Hornady SP #223045Unique6.00 571916.7
Hornady SP #223045Unique7.00 572105.7
Hornady SP #223045Unique8.00 572286.3
Hornady SP #223045Unique4.00 571471.3
Hornady SP #223045Unique3.50 571311.7
Hornady SP #223045Unique3.00 571185.3
Hornady SP #223045Unique3.00 571012.0

Data columns are:
Bullet---Bullet Weight---Powder--- Charge Weight---Temperature when shot---COAL---Velocity
Speer FN Bee #102446Unique3.50 2.070 331241.7
Speer FN Bee #102446Unique4.50 2.070 331514.3
Speer FN Bee #102446Unique3.00 2.070 581086.5
Speer FN Bee #102446Unique3.20 2.070 571124.6
Speer FN Bee #102446Unique3.50 2.070 581234.8
Speer FN Bee #102446Unique3.70 2.070 581304.8

 

[Riflecat]

I appreciate all of the responses so far. This gives me some more options that I had not considered like Blackout and IMR 4227. I will probably pick up some Titegroup since I can get it, and will keep looking for Unique since it is an old standby that for some reason I can never find on the shelf.

I might also try to get some powder coated cast bullets to try out, although they also seem to be a bit of a specialty item in .22 caliber. I am really afraid of getting a bullet stuck in the bore, and it seems like the lead projectiles might be more resistant to this. Does anybody know what the velocity range is where this becomes a real concern, with both jacketed and cast bullets?

Please keep the ideas coming as I still have a long way to go before I am able to shoot these rifles like I hope to.

 

[Dimner]

I appreciate all of the responses so far. This gives me some more options that I had not considered like Blackout and IMR 4227. I will probably pick up some Titegroup since I can get it, and will keep looking for Unique since it is an old standby that for some reason I can never find on the shelf.

I might also try to get some powder coated cast bullets to try out, although they also seem to be a bit of a specialty item in .22 caliber. I am really afraid of getting a bullet stuck in the bore, and it seems like the lead projectiles might be more resistant to this. Does anybody know what the velocity range is where this becomes a real concern, with both jacketed and cast bullets?

Please keep the ideas coming as I still have a long way to go before I am able to shoot these rifles like I hope to.

I have a never had any issues with low velocity loads cast or jacketed. So as long as you can find jacketed you might as well go with that. In my opinion cast only has benefit when you can cast them your self

 

[sw282]

RifleCat. Someone used to make a ctg conversion that allowed 22rf to be shot in 22cf rifles. lt involved a 22cf cartridge case that held a 22rf case. l dont know if they're still made or not

 

[Knotwild]

RifleCat. Someone used to make a ctg conversion that allowed 22rf to be shot in 22cf rifles. lt involved a 22cf cartridge case that held a 22rf case. l dont know if they're still made or not

There is an insert made to use 22lr in a .222 Remington TC Contender barrel on Ebay right now. I also once had a S&W Model 53 in 22 Jet that came with six long rifle inserts and it had two firing pins and a selector on the hammer. I suppose a 22lr lead bullet would expand into the rifling.

The S&W Jet was a royal PITA. I was glad to sell it.

 

[snert]

I shot 222 with a 40 grain Sierra Hornet bullet (224). I used cases that were fired multiple times full power, then only neck sized. I used 4-5 grains of Unique and a standard primer. Wicked accuracy to 50 yards (all the farther i put it on paper. I went lower and finally stuck a bullet at 2 grains (24 inch barrel). It came right out with a few taps from a solid brass rod. I wouldn't worry too much if you stay above 3.5 grains.

I found it to be like shooting an accurate 22 mag. Point being accurate.

I have also shot the 5 grain load from a 220 Swift with a dacron filler. (just enough to hold the powder on the primer. Hard on cleaning but one hole at 35 yards. I also shot 13 grains of 4227 behind a 40 Vmax bullet in the Swift. Solid 200 yard groundhog round, better than a hornet by far.

Find Unique...even if you order online. It isn't rare, just Unique. (sorry, had to)