Help with a 308

[kbcuda]

OK guys here is my problem. I have a factory heavy barrel Savage in 308 Winchester. I'm using Federal brass. Primer pockets uniformed, trimmed to length, and flash holes deburred.
I've weighed my brass and culled light & heavy pieces out.
Bullet- 168 gr Sierra bt match
Primer- Federal match
Powder- H4895 at 38.4, 38.7 *39, 40, 41, 42 grains
IMR4895 at 40.5

I've tried on the lands and .010 off.
The BEST this thing will group is 3 shot .600 groups.

ANY SUGGESTIONS!!!!!?? I have a 7mm STW that can out shoot this thing!

 

[BoydAllen]

How is the bedding? Try loading .010 longer than touch. Your barrel is a 10" twist. A Remingtion 788 with the same twist and calibers liked 168s and 190s.

 

[jb1000br]

try some 10-shot groups...if it stays at .6, that is damn fine for a factory rifle

Did you shoot further than 100?

have you triad any other bullets?

JB

 

[ReedG]

I also have a Savage, the VSS, in .308 and am still working up loads for it. Have only dabbled with the heavy bullets,165-gr. Nosler BTs Spear 180 BTs) though, doing most of my work with 110- and 125-gr. bullets,yes, in the 1:10 twist).

This thing absolutely loves Varget powder, does pretty well with with H322 and also Benchmark. Am trying loads this weekend with AA-2230C,sure looks like BL-C,2)). To date I have fired 285 rounds, all 5-shot groups with different bullet/powder/primer combos and the average of all groups fired is .882" ... largest 1.370 and smallest .095,with 3 at about .010!) off a bipod. I have not used windflags and the weather has been cold or colder,20F and windy) most trips to the range. This thing is not a benchrest gun but it is as good a shooting "untinkered" factory rifle as you could ask for. I would rate it as capable of 1/2 MOA with the right loads and that's all I'm looking for.

I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot from a bipod on a bench, but 110-gr. Sierra HPs will shoot as good as I can: lots of groups with 3 in one hole, 2 in another hole, overall .350 to .600. 110 Hornady Vmax and Spire Points shoot just about as good as the Sierra's. I think the Vmax's have great potential but seem fussy about OAL.

All this ramblin' on is just to suggest that you try some different powders. Maybe your barrel doesn't like the flavor of 4895. Put Varget at the top of your list, especially for heavier bullets in the 155-180 range; maybe H414 for 190s, but I've never used it.

P.S. If you have the factory black plastic,as in "cheap") stock, take it off and throw it away. They are so flimsy and twisty that I don't think they are good for "fine work".

 

[Forum Boss]

+1 on the "throw-away" nature of the plastic factory stock. While some folks have successfully strengthened it with steel rods in bedding material and other modifications, it really is a limiting factor, as one might expect from a component that costs Savage about $10.00.

On my .260 Savage you could actually see a rub mark on the barrel where the "free-floated" stock was contacting the barrel.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, despite the "my Savage shoots 1/4 moa all day long" claims, if you read the tests of Savage .308s by various gun mags, .6" for 3 shots is actually slightly better than average, when shooting Federal GM Match. With a factory barrel/stock you could spend a LOT of time and money on load dev and not end up much better than 1/2 MOA.

 

[kbcuda]

I haven't tried any other bullets or powders yet. I'll check the bedding on the rifle. The rifle is the one with the laminated wood stock. Also thought about taking the scope off and checking it with another scope. It has me pretty confused.
I had a Winchester model 70 a few years ago. It would shoot between 1/4 and 1/2 inch groups at 100. I've not tried out further than 100 yards yet, thought i should try to get this
figured out first.

Kent.

 

[tbeasley]

kbcuda.. I had a Rem 700 VS in .308, for some reason I'm thinking the twist was 1-12,maybe they are 1-10. anyhow, it loved the 175g matchkings. They say that 168 is suppose to be the magic bullet, but my friend has owned three other .308's and they all shot extremely well the 175MK's. Powder was 4895, just don't recall the weight amount.

 

[ReedG]

OK 'Cuda, the laminated stock,presume you mean a Model 12/112 BVSS) from Savage is as good as it gets. When you take it off, make sure in is clean inside. I had one that was full of sawdust and didn't seat the action well. I like to tighten the action screws while holding the rifle in an upright position so the recoil lug is bearing against the stock, then tighten both screws barely finger-tight on your screwdriver. Unless you have inordinate hand strength, then grab the handle of the screwdriver with your full hand and give each screw about 1/8 turn. There is lots of info around about "how many inch/pounds", etc., but keep in mind that the action just needs to be snugged against the pillars.

Also pay attention to your "bench manners" when shooting. The only way to get small groups with even a benchrest rifle is with consistent and thoughtful habits "in the bags". I have loaded and fired over 15,000 rounds the past six years, almost all in load testing,it's my sickness) for a variety of varmint/target rifles, and I can attest that to go from consistent .600" groups to consistent .400" groups takes impeccable handloading,which you seem to have covered), excellent front rests and sandbags, and hours of practice "in the saddle".

I have never had a factory-chambered rifle that was capable of benchrest-level shooting -- five 5-shot groups under 1/2". My custom Savages, with custom chambers and 4-oz. triggers, shot over windflags will do it, but only when I'm having a good day.

We have some good factory-rifle shooters at our Egg/Score Shoots, using Savages, Rugers, Coopers, Sakos, Rem/chesters, all in a variety of varmint calibers. In score shooting the 10-ring is 1/2" and if you cut the line on the left and cut the line on the right you can shoot 250,25 tens) with about a 3/4" group. No box-stock factory rifle has done that in five years of shooting.

But I will say that to win one of our events you usually have to beat a Savage because they have very good factory accuracy.

I have a BVSS stock from my BR Savage and am going to try my .308 in it the week after next when I'm on vacation. Keep us posted on how you're doing and I'll let you know if I have any unusual results with the laminated stock.

 

[JBoyette]

kbcuda,

I had a 10FLP Savage in .308 win. The best load I could find for that rifle was:

168 SMK's
43.5 grn's IMR 4064
WLR primmers
2.800 OAL.
FGMM Brass.

That load was at best .25 MOA twice and under .75 MOA all day long till 600yds. After that, it kept 1 to 1.5 MOA to 1000yds. depending on me, wind and Lower AL temp's.

Hope that helps some.

John

 

[Travelor]

I'm with the others on Varget. Try it with a 175 SMK and I believe you will see the results you want. Also, try 200 or 300 yards as the bullets tend to not "go to sleep" until after 100 yards. The best loads I have found for my factory Savage 308's has been:

40.5 gr. H4895 with 168 SMK

44 gr. Varget with 175 SMK

Seat them as far out as you can.

Another hint is use your Stoney Point gages and find 5 that are the same length to the ogive. They vary in a box.

George

 

[BoydAllen]

I have always found that bedding the action is a good place to start when trying to improve accuracy. Also, bedding scope bases, and lapping rings is a good idea. Beyond that, I noticed some rather large jumps in powder charge in the loads that you tested. I would test with smaller increments. Also, what sort of dies are you using, and what sort of concentricity are you getting? What is your scope parallax situation?

 

[cfrazier77]

In my Savage 308 with a 12" twist IMR 4064 shoots better than Varget.

 

[alf]

The OP probably wrapped his Savage around a tree and moved on.

The post is from 2005 and he hasn't logged on since.......

 

[lonehunter]

Try putting 42.5 gr. of Imr 4895 and jamming so you lands mark is half as long as is wide. Works well in a stock Rem.5R. Shoots in the low 1's -zeros at 100 yards and 1\2" at 300 yards. Hope this helps......

 

[Kenny474]

If he hasn't found a solution in the 5 years since this was posted, I don't think it's going to happen now.

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

Imr 4895 was the choice of Palma shooters for many years!

Try

308 Win
IMR 4895 @ 43.6 or IMR 4064 @ 43.5
Fed Brass
Fed 210GM Primer
168 Sierra MK or 165gr Sierra GK

This load should dupicate Federal Gold Medal Match factory
Round @ 2600 FPS

Reloader 15 and Varget and Norma 202 are also excellent

 

[Laurie]

It's usually easy to get good results from .308W and all of the load suggestions provided should work well.

A few suggestions.

One, try a different bullet. Barrels have like and dislikes. Although the 168gn SMK is usually a work-in-everything model, your barrel may not like it for whatever reason.

Secondly, you don't say how many rounds have gone down the barrel. Savage factory barrels usually come pretty rough and take 200 plus rounds to run-in. Owners often see a significant tightening in groups at around the 250 round mark.

Third, action screw torque settings have a big effect on these actions, especially if it's a three-screw model. There is a post somewhere on the forum about a recommended 'tuning' method that sees the main front pair torqued up very tight first, followed by the rear screw which is initially only just done up before gradually tightening it in small increments of 5 inch-lbs and watching group size all the while, which should reduce as you reach an optimal point and then increase again past that.

Naturally, I can't find this post, but there are several on the forum giving similar advice on Savages (one listed below), and it may be worth visiting the Savage Shooters Forum if stuck.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,2595422.msg24943135.html#msg24943135


Finally, you're not that far off really good groups. It is a mass produced factory rifle after all. Because some examples consistently group within 0.25-0.5" doesn't mean every one will. A three-quarters MOA factory rifle is still within specification and would have been regarded as unbelievably good not too many years ago. I have both 'types' of Savage, and know that it's easy to have inflated expectations from them in out of the box form.

I reckon with some running in, optimal bullet selection, and maybe a play with the action screw settings, you'll get a half-MOA ('average') rifle and that's very reasonable for an off the shelf product.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[whiskey08]

varget or 4064,

4895 is accurate if u can find the sweet spot, but its elusive and small in my experience. 4064 shoots great, just gotta now your dope from 60 degrees in the morning to 90 degrees in the afternoon cause its gonna be at least a moa of difference.

varget is slightly more finicky than 4064 but my point of impact doesnt change when im using varget


in my previous savage i would touch or back off of the lands a few thousandths, run it at max loads and that thing would shoot close to 1/4moa all day long.

right now im using 175 smk's, .005 off of the lands, 44.5 gr of varget, lapua brass, and cci primers and im shooting 1/4 moa easy. dont settle for .6moa try a different powder, and get closer to the lands with sierras, gl

 

[bozo699]

The OP probably wrapped his Savage around a tree and moved on.

The post is from 2005 and he hasn't logged on since.......

Alf,
Nobody has obviosly read your post but Kenny474. ;D Now thats funny right there!!
Wayne.

 

[jonbearman]

I have a bone stock model 700 VS/.308. It shoots under a half inch with 42.5 grains of BLC-2 or H 335 around the same with no brass sorting other than good normal case prep. I love the gun.It is the most accurate factory rifle I have ever owned , so I bought 3 of them all in different calibers. Look up my load in hodgens manual and work up a load that will work with your rifle using either powder.I am actually using surplus blc-2.