Help needed with load.

[Mtstalker]

I have really been scrutinizing my loads lately and trying to make them better. I dont like to be unsafe. One load in particular has me thinking. I have mentioned on here before about finally finding a load for my 338 win mag and it does shoot great finally(10yrs on and off of trying to find a load.) At the range i couldny see any problems or marks on the brass. Life was good. Now that i went to reload i noticed a very very very faint ejector mark. I have to hold the case just right in the right light to see it. I cant feel it not even with a pick. And looking straight at the case head it isnt visable only at a angle with extremely bright light. I can barely even get a picture to pick it up. I mopped the chamber with carb cleaner before heading out with a new mop. Primers are great and bolt lift is the same as starting or factory ammo. Its doing this from 69gr and up. I would like to back it down but it will only shoot from 71-72 grs.(3/8" at 72, 2.5"+ any other charge or load) In my thread "it only took 10 yrs" i discuss what a problem this rifle has been. I will post some pics of the cases as best as i can. And i did mik the heads for exspansion and some havent grown from new and others have grown .0006". Which should be ok. I dont have a computer or i would buy quick load to see what it says for pressure. Im thinking this is just a hot load and the gun likes it. The specs are 338 win. 24" barrel. Remington brass trim to 2.50" cci250 primer 225 sierra pro hunter 72gr IMR4350 at a OAL of 3.320" avg velocity 2828fps. This is the worst mark i found, and its not smeared the ejector has a burr on the tip (not the hole) ive been meaning to hone down it does that all the time even with new brass. Its around the "n" on win. Pockets are still good after 3 loads on the brass. Thanks guys

 

[CaptainMal]

I see nothing unusual. Actually what I see looks good.

With my Model 70 in 338 I shoot 72 gr. of Reloader 19 with a 225 gr. SST and get 2760fps. In my notes I considered 74 gr at 2820fps to be a "little hot". Been a few years since I shot that rifle so don't remember what that looked like on the fired cases.

 

[Mtstalker]

Ok the mark is what worries me but its the only load that shoots. My uncle bought this rifle in 82 and could never get it to shoot so he gave it to me and then i gave up for a while but finally got it done. Just want to be safe. Ive run charges in other rifles while testing untill there was a very obvious ejector mark but those also had a sticky bolt and glat primers.

 

[ireload2]

If you go through a 5 gallon bucket of fired brass from factory ammo (excepting 30-30), you will probably find that 25% of it has some sort of horse shoe from an ejector hole. In most cases it is just a ring imprint and is not a scraped off circle.

 

[Mtstalker]

Thanks Ireload2, yes its a very light mark no smear or swipe and pockets are still tight at 3 firings.

 

[Mtstalker]

How accurate is the calculated pressure in quickload? Would anyone be willing to run the numbers in quickload? It would be much appreciated.

 

[FeMan]

How accurate is the calculated pressure in quickload? Would anyone be willing to run the numbers in quickload? It would be much appreciated.

Due to powder lot variations, I don't find the pressure outputs in QL to always line up with my results. Based on a quick review of a few reloading manuals, your load looks like one that is well under max pressure. I don't see any ejector mark in the picture and the primer looks "gently used". In my experience, If I get a real ejector mark, the primer is flattened and/or cupped pretty severely first and the bolt lift is noticeably higher.

 

[Mtstalker]

You can make it out barely. The "N" on win is dead center it touches the letters on both sides. Thanks for the onfo on quickload. Nosker and hodgdon both have this as a max load. Lyman has 69grs as max which is really light.

 

[FeMan]

Ok, I do see a faint mark of some kind now. If I remember tonight when I get home, I will run QL for you. One thing I do find reliable about QL is that it seems to accurately predict what velocity you will get a max pressure from a given load. That's a bit indirect but I trust that more than loading up to whatever max powder charge QL says setup should handle. If you want me to run it and you don't see a PM from me, shake my cage.

 

[Mtstalker]

Will do thank you. Im not sure my chronograph is spot on since it was later in the day. I disnt use my magnetospeed yet since it opens the groups up on this rifle.

 

[rifleman700]

I have really been scrutinizing my loads lately and trying to make them better. I dont like to be unsafe. One load in particular has me thinking. I have mentioned on here before about finally finding a load for my 338 win mag and it does shoot great finally(10yrs on and off of trying to find a load.) At the range i couldny see any problems or marks on the brass. Life was good. Now that i went to reload i noticed a very very very faint ejector mark. I have to hold the case just right in the right light to see it. I cant feel it not even with a pick. And looking straight at the case head it isnt visable only at a angle with extremely bright light. I can barely even get a picture to pick it up. I mopped the chamber with carb cleaner before heading out with a new mop. Primers are great and bolt lift is the same as starting or factory ammo. Its doing this from 69gr and up. I would like to back it down but it will only shoot from 71-72 grs.(3/8" at 72, 2.5"+ any other charge or load) In my thread "it only took 10 yrs" i discuss what a problem this rifle has been. I will post some pics of the cases as best as i can. And i did mik the heads for exspansion and some havent grown from new and others have grown .0006". Which should be ok. I dont have a computer or i would buy quick load to see what it says for pressure. Im thinking this is just a hot load and the gun likes it. The specs are 338 win. 24" barrel. Remington brass trim to 2.50" cci250 primer 225 sierra pro hunter 72gr IMR4350 at a OAL of 3.320" avg velocity 2828fps. This is the worst mark i found, and its not smeared the ejector has a burr on the tip (not the hole) ive been meaning to hone down it does that all the time even with new brass. Its around the "n" on win. Pockets are still good after 3 loads on the brass. Thanks guys

With the load info you supplied QL shows this load to be 2K above max pressure. The only variable that might change this is your actual case capacity. It also shows that this powder / bullet combo to be very good. There should also be an accuracy node around 2680 fps with much lower pressure. Again, actual case capacity will change this all slightly.

 

[rifleman700]

Once burn rate is adjusted for actual measured velocities, QL predictions are very close for pressures. I measure pressures with a Oehler 43 PBL and they are very close to QL.

 

[Mtstalker]

Thanks for doing that. Ive had ok accuracy at 2650fps(1.5") but i often got alot of vertical stringing. With the 72 grain load its shoots really good. What is the rule for case capacity to ppressure, i know for every 11gr of case drop powder by 1 grain. Is this the same? This is 3 shots with the 72gr load.

 

[Mtstalker]

Fired case weights 233.8grs with primer. I filled with water and level across top of neck it weights 322.4grs. There is .44" of the bullet in the case measured from top of neck to base of bullet in the case.

 

[FeMan]

I ran Quick Load and it tells me that at maximum pressure at 70 degrees F you should get 2800 fps exactly out of a 24-inch barrel with Sierra Pro Hunters and IMR 4350. In my experience that is pretty believable. I think you were a little above that in terms of velocity. QL also tells me that you should get 2837 fps at 72.0 grains and be about 2,850 psi over max for the case. That data isn't always reliable because burn rates vary from lot to lot and QL has a set value for that powder. In any event, from your post that seems to almost exactly match your results.

Your load should be alright in about 40 degrees colder temps. If you dropped it 1.0 grains you should be within specs at the top end at 70 degrees F. You might try that and if groups open up, try a couple different primers. Sometimes primers can really help and sometimes not. 72.0 grains is not a lot of powder. It probably wants a mag primer but doesn't need a hot one.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rsadams]

Just a thought, Is there gunk holding the ejector from going all the way down? Just take an empty case and work it with a drop of oil..

 

[rifleman700]

Fired case weights 233.8grs with primer. I filled with water and level across top of neck it weights 322.4grs. There is .44" of the bullet in the case measured from top of neck to base of bullet in the case.

That extra 2 grains of case capacity put your pressures a little over max at 62.7K which is very doable. The OBT is a little off but from what you are saying I would do seating depth testing at this charge and see if you can't tighten up the groups a little more.

 

[timeout]

As finicky to charge weight is in comparison to group size, is there any chance a tuner could help you? You also mentioned that the magneto speed throws your group sizes out of wack.

 

[Mtstalker]

Thanks for the reply. This is a factory rifle i use for hunting nothing else, so the groups should be good enough. Now as far as pressure, is the 2k over a deal breaker? Should i drop it down or am i risking damage to the rifle? I did find this load at 47 degrees and i shot it the other day at 69 degrees and the ammo sat in the sun for almost 2 hrs before i got to it. Which could explain where i got that light imprint at. I have tried seating depth in .005" incremebts and its a window that starts at 3.320" and goes to 3.350" only problem is mag length is 3.330". i thought sammi max pressure is 64k? I have run remington in them and they shot about the same velocity , groups opened up. Looking at my notes 71 grains im running 2710fps. That just might be what i do. This gun only gets drug out in the fall but sometimes its -20 out but it can also be on the 80's.

 

[timeout]

Thanks for the reply. This is a factory rifle i use for hunting nothing else. So the groups should be good enough for elk. Now as far as pressure, is the 2k over a deal breaker? Should i drop it down or am i risking damage to the rifle? I have tried seating depth in .005" incremebts and its a window that starts at 3.320" and goes to 3.350" only problem is mag length is 3.330" now i thought sammi max pressure is 64k?

I agree that your groups are good enough now. If you had to drop the charge weight a bit, they are way off. I was just asking if a tuner might be a good solution for this rifle? I've never had experience with one. I was hoping a forum member that uses them might weigh in. Harrell's sells tuner brakes quite reasonable. Might be an option?