Hello from a noob seeking advice!

[442]

Hi folks, new here.

I've been lurking and learning a lot by reading quite a few threads that pertain to my interest regarding wildcat calibers. I'd like to buy a bolt gun and dip my toes into reloading and shooting wildcats. Right now, I mainly shoot an AR15 and a .22LR, along with a couple 7.62x54 Mosins just for grins. I started reloading for the AR a few months back to save money on plinking ammo, but found myself chasing after accuracy instead of just loading reliable blasting stuff. I think that got me interested in a dedicated bench gun, but also to reload for something other than factory available chamberings.

It would certainly make the most sense to pick up a .223 bolt gun as I have several K of 55gn SP's, about 20lbs of WC844 which I understand is equivalent to H335, and a fair amount of once fired brass. I may of course just do that, make some pet loads for my bench rifle, and call it good for awhile.

However, I'm also looking at maybe a 20 Practical, a 6x45 or a .223AI. I know the first two are easily made from my .223 brass, and I believe the latter only involves a little more work. I have read though where the Ackley can present feeding problems and to get the most consistent performance out of it I may need to actually buy some quality brass such as Lapua. Has that been the experience of anyone here?

If new brass is in order, I admit interest in the old 6x47 from which I believe .204 Ruger brass can be used. A .22-.204 is interesting, but from what I understand the .223AI would be essentially equal it. If I stick with a .20, is there such a thing as .20-.233AI? Have I came down with a disease?

I know most of my shooting will be done at my local range which is only 15min away.Since it only goes to 100yds, that what most of my shooting will be done at. However, for those weekends when I have the time and inclination to make a 1 1/2 round trip, there is a range where you can throw them 300yds. I'd like whatever I pick to be able to shine at that distance too. Being as I won't be hunting with this and can't go really long anywhere in my area, I'm thinking of sticking to lighter projectiles and a slower twist to maximize velocities.

I don't have a lot to spend, so I'm trying to do this somewhat on a budget. If I decide on a .223, I really like the Vanguard series from Weatherby, but if I decide on something for which I'd need a custom barrel, I'd likely buy either a Savage or Marlin XL series due to the ability to swap barrels on them.

I'd appreciate any comments or guidance anyone can provide on this venture.

David


FWIW, I am aware of the potential issues of eventually having two rifles that fire similar looking but incompatible chamberings under the same roof.

 

[watercam]

Don't think I am crazy but I know several folks who have trued and barreled Mosin Nagants with great success. ONe gent is using the 7.62x54 as the parent case for 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm wildcats based on the Russian round. Just a thought!

 

[442]

My 91/30 actually doesn't do that bad as is. The M38 is not nearly as good, though the bang and fire show at dusk makes it fun. I plan on doing some tweaks on the 91/30, but really only to see how good it can do with the surplus steel cased stuff.

On the other hand, since Mosins are so cheap, I guess I could pick up another just for the action and put a different barrel on it in a different chambering.

Of course then I'd have to explain to the CFO when I need three of them!

Thanks

 

[vmaxpro]

442, Honestly I would keep close eye on the classified listings on here. Ive seen some fast twist plain 223 savage lrpv go for pretty cheap! You would be very very happy with the 223/75 amax/ varget/lapua combo. I played around with tons of wildcats and case forming and so on and I still turn to the 223. Everybody around my area asks me about building a rifle and I always turn them to the 223. Good luck with whatever you decide and most important have fun!

 

[MrMajestic]

is there such a thing as .20-.233AI?

Yes, I believe it gets you .204 Ruger performance in quality(Lapua) and/or plentiful cases.

 

[WillinDenver]

442;

I shoot the 20 Practical, 6x45 and 223 AI. I've written articles on two of the three, the first two. I also have a couple 223 rem and many rounds of ammo. I'm not a bench rest shooter, just a prairie dog shooter, between 5,000 and 7,000 per year, except for the last two years. My action of choice is the Remington 700, a few Rugers, and a Savage or two. I changed a 204 Rem SPS into the 20 Practical, and a couple of other SPS's into the 6x45 and 223 AI. The only time I changed the barrel was for the 6x45 because of the 6mm caliber, that I found on this forum. It can be done and it's not hard at all.

 

[284driver]

To be honest, if I were on a budget, I'd get a savage chambered in a 223 (since you like the 223 and already have components to do so. Savages shoot excellent out of the box. If you get a hankering for a wildcat, aftermarket barrels can be had and chambered into the cartridge of your choice. You can switch the barrels out relatively easy with only a couple of tools.
There arent that many aftermarket components for weatherby rifles. Savages moreso. And Remington's even more.
Just my$.02.

 

[442]

is there such a thing as .20-.233AI?

Yes, I believe it gets you .204 Ruger performance in quality(Lapua) and/or plentiful cases.

That's what I was thinking.

Thanks!

 

[442]

vmaxpro and skyav8r,

You've both advocated what I also believe makes the most sense and the direction I'll most likely go. It's just so tempting to do something out of the ordinary!

Thanks for your input.

 

[284driver]

Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[442]

442;

I shoot the 20 Practical, 6x45 and 223 AI. I've written articles on two of the three, the first two. I also have a couple 223 rem and many rounds of ammo. I'm not a bench rest shooter, just a prairie dog shooter, between 5,000 and 7,000 per year, except for the last two years. My action of choice is the Remington 700, a few Rugers, and a Savage or two. I changed a 204 Rem SPS into the 20 Practical, and a couple of other SPS's into the 6x45 and 223 AI. The only time I changed the barrel was for the 6x45 because of the 6mm caliber, that I found on this forum. It can be done and it's not hard at all.

Wow, you've just hit them all! Is any one of those easier to load for? Can you give a few shooting comparisons about them?

Much appreciated.

 

[WillinDenver]

442;

Of the three the 223 AI is the easiest of the wildcats to produce. Once the rifle is chambered to 223 AI you take a regular 223 Rem and fire it in the rifle at a prairie dog and you have a 223 AI case to reload from then on. You don't have to change the rifles configuration at all (if it was a 223 Rem to begin with), just re-chamber and go. The 223 AI is a straight wall case with a 40 degree shoulder. More power capacity and higher velocity. But the biggest thing I like about it is the fact that the case doesn't stretch every time. I shoot a lot and get piles of brass at times, if I don't have to trim them it makes it much easier to reload. I can go sometime three shooting before I have to trim. The first time especially, the first firing shortens the case and takes a while to get to 1.750 length. I trim all of my 223 AI, 6 x 45, 20 Practical, and 223 Rem to Trim Length, 1.750. I use a 223 AI Rem Redding S Die Full Length set and a .245 bushing.

The next easiest is the 6 x 45. I use 223 Rem Redding S Die Full Length sizer with a 6mm expander ball to make the brass. I anneal the fired 223 Rem and size them with a .264 bushing, your done. I had my .223 Rem L.E. Wilson case Gage opened up on the neck by my gunsmith so I can check all of the 223 parent cases with it. I load a cheap bullet and shoot a prairie dog and I have my 6 x 45 brass. The big difference is the shoulder stays the same, 23 degrees as the parent case 223 Rem. They do stretch like the 223 Rem, but you're using a 6mm bullet, much better in the Western winds in Colorado and Wyoming.

The 20 Practical is a little more work. I start with a fired 223 Rem, anneal it and size it in my 223 Rem Redding S Die Full Length sizer using a standard expander (mine is .221, it came that way), and standard .245 bushing. If you're using military cases now is a real good time to use a RCBS swager on the primer pockets. And if you haven't cleaned up that little bur in the primer flash hole, now is a good time, when you take it to 20 Cal you'll not be able to get your flash hole tool in the case. I'll do 200 to 500 at a time, change to a .233 bushing, then change to a .225 and go through them all. I have found using the 223 Rem Redding S Die Full Length sizer I can size and form all of the different cases 6 x 45, 20 Practical, and 223 Rem and not move the die at all. Just change the bushing.

I like them all, and shoot them all.

Will

 

[dansig]

If you like the weatherby Vanguard then go for it, it's Howa 1500 action and they are very good, get a new Krieger match barrel and you'll have a very accurate rifle.

Rifle $350 @ Cabelas
Barrel $300
Gun smith $300. Bedding and barrel work.

And you'll have a gun that shoots .2" groups @100 yards

 

[vmaxpro]

Very true about the Howas, I had a 223 and 204 howa and they both shot excellent. Curious about there new trigger...

 

[Doosky]

In my opinion if you arent shooting past 300m. and you want a fun project gun for small $. I have a Stevens model 200 in 22-250. (although i would recommend 223.) which is a identical action to the savage model 10/11/12/16 rifles, and all parts interchange. I bought mine a few months ago for just over $300.0 new. It will need a stock, and trigger work at a minimum. I had a pillared laminiated savage stock and a accu trigger laying around from a build i did, and that $330.00 Stevens ( plus parts i already had) shoots 1 hole 3 shot groups (.2's) at 100 yds, with very little loading research.
Just an idea?

 

[442]

442;

..snip..

I like them all, and shoot them all.

Will

Will, many thanks for the tutorial! Very informative.

I can see where my having a large amount of 223 brass will come in handy if no other reason than to practice the prep w/o it being a big deal if I have to chuck some of it during the learning process.

David

 

[442]

If you like the weatherby Vanguard then go for it, it's Howa 1500 action and they are very good, get a new Krieger match barrel and you'll have a very accurate rifle.

Rifle $350 @ Cabelas
Barrel $300
Gun smith $300. Bedding and barrel work.

And you'll have a gun that shoots .2" groups @100 yards

Until I could swing the barrel swap, I like the Varmint version of the Vanguard. No sure if the 20in barrel on it would give up enough fps to worry about though. The Vanguard do seem to have a good cost/peformance ratio.

Thanks.

 

[442]

In my opinion if you arent shooting past 300m. and you want a fun project gun for small $. I have a Stevens model 200 in 22-250. (although i would recommend 223.) which is a identical action to the savage model 10/11/12/16 rifles, and all parts interchange. I bought mine a few months ago for just over $300.0 new. It will need a stock, and trigger work at a minimum. I had a pillared laminiated savage stock and a accu trigger laying around from a build i did, and that $330.00 Stevens ( plus parts i already had) shoots 1 hole 3 shot groups (.2's) at 100 yds, with very little loading research.
Just an idea?

Facepalm! I don't know why, but the Stevens hadn't even occurred to me. More fuel to the fire.

Thx!

 

[cb1229]

savage lrpv 1/7 90grburger reloader15 lc brass br primers devcon the action 1.2 5shots at 400yd gun also shoots anything 69 up very well