heat treating dies

[firearmdoc1]

If I was to make a set of loading dies, how hard should they be? Can anyone suggest or recommend a heat treating company for this? Is there any particular method of heat treating which is best?
I know there are people who make dies as well. Would this be a better option cost wise?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lazydays]

over the years, I've made several sets of sizing dies, and have made my own custom seaters out of Forster dies. Material in a sizer can make or break you, and trust me I've made my own series of screw ups in the past! The easiest ones I built were simply 4350 pretreat steel that I later nitride hardened for about a .025" case. A2 does well, but you must find a good heat treater that knows what he's doing. I'd avoid exotic metals like Air Die and Graphmo like the plague. D2 machines nice, but is kinda brittle when hardened. I played around with S5 and S7, and wouldn't do that one again as well. I have made forming dies out of generic O-1 & O-6, but I'd rather use A2 anyday of the week. Plus you can buy A2 drill rod right off the shelf. The 4350, I had laying around (I'd say 4150 will do just about as well), and it machines very well. Takes the nitride process exceptionally well too.
gary

 

[Scott Harris]

There is a heat treat place on the east coast: fireball, that does a lot of dies. You can also use many other methods to harden them. I am going to try meloniting couple dies and see how that turns out. I had a few mandrels melonited and it worked well.

 

[fguffey]

If I was to make a set of loading dies, how hard should they be? Can anyone suggest or recommend a heat treating company for this? Is there any particular method of heat treating which is best?
I know there are people who make dies as well. Would this be a better option cost wise?

Thanks in advance.

“If I was to make a set of loading dies, how hard should they be?”

Like everyone else I have take off barrels, no tomato stakes, I give little thought to cutting the barrel up for material starting with the chamber. The chamber is a chamber gage/case gage, that makes the minimum value of a take off barrel worth $40.00+ minimum.

Point? In the old days it was common for a smiths to grind reamers ‘first’ to cut the chamber then regrind the reamer (for clearance) to cut the sizer die, meaning I can not use the chamber of a take off barrel to size a case.

Then there was remote, at least one smith made a different type/kind of die, I do not know how his dies would compare with dies today, I was asked to add to and or finished a set he started, problem, my equipment is too old to hold .0001”.

Heat treating: Beginning/fundamental/basic blacksmithing. Back to making a set of reloading dies:

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/2010_SpecialOrder.pdf

For dies: RCBS sells die blanks, page 11, left column near the bottom of the page, again, in the old days smiths made their own blanks, another brand after the old days was Eagle.

Seating dies, I have made seating tools with out die bodies. the seating die does not support the case, my opinion, centering the bullet with the case neck is the purpose of the seating process, then there is neck support.

There is “I had a die set made” then there “I made a set of dies”, vocation and or career.

F. Guffey

 

[wapiti25]

Not all dies need to be hardened, neck bushing dies do not need to be hard. Full length dies should be hard on the surface, harder keeps the brass from wanting to stick. I would say about 50 Rc is a min, as 42 Rc chrome moly was a little "sticky". The polish of the surface is a big factor, I found that finer than 600 grit "wet or dry" was desireable. I do not harden seating dies. What caliber are you wanting to make dies for and what style?

 

[wapiti25]

I just bought an old (1944) tool and cutter grinder also got an optical comparator. I have not run one in about 35 years. I was thinking about playing with some "wildcat" chamber reamers. I made some punch press dies many years ago out of BTR (Bethlehem Tool Room steel) they worked good to form copper cups, they were about 60 Rc

 

[firearmdoc1]

Wapiti25,
I was going to make a full length die and seater die for a wildcat which I designed. Just trying to get an idea of how hard the sizing die needs to be. Lazydays gave me some great info via pm. Now it's probably just a matter of deciding which method I want to use to harden them.