• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Have there been tests to the effect of powder charge variations?

I currently use the RCBS chargemaster and realize most people consider it an entry level unit. I've seen the top of the line units with scientific scales that measure down to .01 grains.

Has anyone seen or done tests that test real world accuracy variations when using a scale of .1 grain resolution to .01 grain resolution units.

Its easy to assume that a more consistent powder charge will increase accuracy but I wonder what the point of diminishing returns is?
 
It is subjective to case capacity of a cartridge and each individual rifle. All rifles are different even if only in a small way. A 17 Hornet is going to be much more sensitive to small powder variations than a 338 Lapua will be.

This is why folks conduct ladder tests. Sometimes small differences in powder charge weights can change accuracy, but you want to find a load that's in tune where those small differences do not change the accuracy or point of impact. When a properly tuned load is found, then these ultra accurate scales aren't as necessary. Tho they are nice for initial testing to ensure charge weights are accurate.
 
totally depends on what you are trying to do. for hunting or plinking or even short range benchrest chargemaster is very popular. now for the 1000 yrd crowd, i doubt you will find one competitor that doesn't weigh every charge on a very accurate scale.

i have owned and used

a harrells powder measure. fastest way to charge cases. very repeatable if you have a rhythm down. many short range benchrest shooters still use them.

i have a couple of gempros and a little dandy that i used for a year or two

had a chargemaster. found i could drop a charge with the harrell and trickle it up with my little dandy faster and more accurately

now i use adams's Autotrickler system. fast and accurate. best system i have found.

take your pick they all work. if you can find one of those 0.30 wide powder charge nodes it will make powder charging so much less important.

there are.so many things that contribute to accuracy. don't get hung up on one because if you don't address them all you are.probably wasting your time and money.

read about some of the long range shooters reloading procedures.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/ohara-sets-1000-yard-ibs-agg-records/
 
Last edited:
I currently use the RCBS chargemaster and realize most people consider it an entry level unit. I've seen the top of the line units with scientific scales that measure down to .01 grains.

Has anyone seen or done tests that test real world accuracy variations when using a scale of .1 grain resolution to .01 grain resolution units.

Its easy to assume that a more consistent powder charge will increase accuracy but I wonder what the point of diminishing returns is?
I usually do my load testing in 2/10 grain increments. I can usually see a difference on paper with no more change than that. I load to within .02 grains with an FX scale.
 
totally depends on what you are trying to do. for hunting or plinking or even short range benchrest chargemaster is very popular. now for the 1000 yrd crowd, i doubt you will find one competitor that doesn't weigh every charge on a very accurate scale.

I agree. I load my competition ammo using my chargemaster. It's efficient and accurate enough to get me inside the ball park. But while the chargemaster is dumping the next charge into the pan I use my beam scale to fine tune the load under immediate consideration.
 
I currently use the RCBS chargemaster and realize most people consider it an entry level unit. I've seen the top of the line units with scientific scales that measure down to .01 grains.

Has anyone seen or done tests that test real world accuracy variations when using a scale of .1 grain resolution to .01 grain resolution units.

Its easy to assume that a more consistent powder charge will increase accuracy but I wonder what the point of diminishing returns is?
At 1000, pwdwer variance of .1 grain will show 50-100% group size variance in 308, perhapsat lesser variances but that is splitting hairs, right ?
 
Not real-life effect on accuracy (which has so many variables in it that it is a near impossible task anyway), but Bryan Litz does this using results in MV SD values for six cartridges (223 up to 338LM size/volume wise) with seven powders, six of them extruded and one (Magpro) a ball type. Each cartridge was tested and chronographed twice and some three times (these having undergone a primer substitution) with charges obtained from a powder measure, RCBS Chargemaster, Satorious lab scale.

These tests can be found on pages 117 - 133 of Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol II by Mr Litz and available from Applied Ballistics or its approved outlets.

With the exception of .300 Win Mag which had both extruded (H1000) and ball (Magpro) variants, every cartridge saw large SD reductions in the move from thrown to Chargemaster dispensed, but with smaller reductions going onto the Satorius weighed and adjusted charges (to plus or minus 0.02gn), although the improvements reduce as the cartridge and charge size increase. For the 300 Win Mag, the pattern applied to H1000, but Chargemaster SDs were poorer than metered examples with Magpro. (This doesn't surprise me - ball powders flow too freely for the Chargemaster IMO and I won't use it for this type.)

Other factors to consider are cartridge / charge size and weight as a plus or minus 0.1gn variance has a great deal greater effect on pressures and MVs in a small cartridge than a large one. Then there is group size sensitivity to charge weight variance. In an ideal world all our loads would produce one-hole groups across 0.5gn charge spreads, but unfortunately over the years, I've had to live with many where a 0.2gn change doubles 100 yard group size. Finally, if the rifle and cartridge group well at all ranges, how much elevation on the target is injected by MV changes - that obviously being mostly a function of sheer distance.

When I shot a lot of 223 Rem with 90s in FTR at up to 1,000 yards, really consistent charges were vital to long-range performance so everything was weighed and adjusted to plus/minus 0.02gn on a set of Acculab VIC123 scales. That's plus or minus a single kernel of Re15 which was what I used at the time. Loading for this rifle was a slow tortuous business! But for a lot of cartridges, being shot over short to mid ranges, the ChargeMaster is consistent enough, provided that consistency is regularly checked throughout the loading process. Many times I've seen the device behave admirably, often producing less variation than the spec, over quite long strings of charges being dispensed then for no apparent reason, it starts to play up or move a full grain away from the setting. Sometimes, recalibrating it works, other times it needs to be switched off and 'rested' for an hour or two.

Incidentally, mentioning Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol II this is only one of several such exercises covered in the book - bullet pointing and trimming; effect of neck tension changes / annealing; flash-hole deburring and chamfering. It also has some very interesting stuff on measuring groups and a very long range-tested report one of those perennial range-house discussion and forum topics that has no doubt ruined a few friendships over the years - 'angular convergence', otherwise known as bullets 'going to sleep' and shooting smaller groups in MOA terms at 300 and longer distances than at 100. There are tests of 22LR ammunition and Laser Rangefinders and a quite fascinating section on barrels including two types of carbon fibre wrapped models and a new type I'd never heard of, the Teludine Tech StraightJacket Barrel System or SJBS but which seems to work.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,830
Messages
2,204,061
Members
79,148
Latest member
tsteinmetz
Back
Top