Has anyone here pioneered their own wildcat?

[338 Mollett]

I've done three. The first was a 408 Cheytac shortened about an inch and necked to a 338.That case is a PIA to make ,4 different sizing dies and the neck wall getting to about 24 thou.Takes two days to make 50 cases.It did accomplish what I wanted ,a case much shorter than the Lapua but holding the same amount of powder with a longer neck.The second is a hot little number I took a 6.5 284 case and brought the shoulder back also with a longer neck to fit a short action.I loose too many cases during forming on that one.The last one I will shoot for a long time ,very similar to what Danny Biggs did.

 

[Clark]

Sounds like BB gun, kills with body shots. No suppressor needed.

Highest expansion ratio of any cartridge known to man.

 

[Twicepop]

I had thoughts about a lot of different wildcats in the past. I had several ideas that when weighed against what is commercially available, and the cost involved for having a reamer(s) done and special dies, my ideas would do nothing much of any better than the commercial cartridges available. I had an obscure wildcat rifle once that when I sold it, I got about 50-60% of what I had in it. For me anymore, the only wildcats I would consider are the Ackley Improved series of cartridges, where I can still shoot factory ammo in them.

 

[miningshawn]

I guess I am pretty conservative. Why the expense and trouble for all of the custom design, reamer, dies ect. There are some many good existing calibers to chose from.. You will probably never be able to sell the rifle.

Yeah, giving up is easy. But nobody has really tried the efficiencies route with the .257 nearly as closely as with the 6mm and 6.5mm. There is finally a bullet worth trying, and I want to. God knows money isn't the problem when I'm stuck at work until the 'rona thing goes away.

I also have no intent to make a single dime. I don't sell rifles, I don't sell ammo, I don't really sell anything - ever. This will all be open-sourced to anybody wanting to try it. I just happen to think it's a cool project and wanted to optimize the purchase price with all the experience here.

 

[Webster]

Has anyone here tried to pioneer their own wildcat, from the reamer design all the way to the end product? I'm working with Kiff on something new and the dollars are adding up quickly. I'm going to see this through; but, it is enough money to be missed on other projects! I would like to hear about your successes and pitfalls - what to do and what not to do. What would you have done differently?

So far it is PT&G for the reamers and action (B-12), McGowen for the barrels and stub gauges, Whidden for the dies, and Peterson wildcat tubes.

Good luck have fun. I have been shooting the same rifle since 1969 for GH hunting. I just keep buying new barrels and changing calibers. 6mm Rem > 6BR Norma > 6BRX. The replacment value if I lost it would be over $3000 for all new parts.

 

[lurcher]

Sometimes you can do a wildcat on the cheap without the reamer like I did, 9 years on and it still shoots great, I have shot many deer with this round and I have the brass forming well sorted

https://www.shootersforum.com/wildcat-cartridges/74734-7mm-saum-wildcat.html
https://www.shootersforum.com/wildcat-cartridges/79089-7mm-saum-wildcat-progress-questions.html

My advice would be to design your wildcat based on brass that can be obtained from Norma or Lapua. All problems associated with this wildcat vanished once I switched to Norma brass. Can't say enough good things about Mark's form die either, works a treat. I was told that form dies that push in from the side as opposed to move the shoulder down like mine does work better, but I can't fault the way the die works as long as I anneal every 2nd step

 

[Romulus]

The 257 Blackjack cartridge will be one of these ground up projects like you describe. Love to see the 257 Norton. It should run very well. If you don't get the ball rolling the 257 SAW can be a placeholder until all your ducks get in a row. Clayton at West Texas Ordnance can get you chambered and dies out very quickly. If you are not already familiar it would be an "SLR" type process from 7-08 to a non-fireformed improved geometry.

Anyhow, the 257 Blackjack has been on our project list for a couple of years and we have tested it with machined and formed brass. The design goal is a simple 3200 fps from 24" barrel which proved achievable in calculation and now in real life performance with a few different powders.

The case capacity is 60.0 gr H2O and rests in a very empty area of the water capacity list if you take a look.

The 257 Blackjack will be available with commercially available ready to shoot brass in starting very early in 2021 - sooner for the regional test shooters we have selected.

The design philosophy is just like the 131 ACE - balanced performance in the Goldie Lock's Zone. More than enough but not too much.

Calculate 0.340 G7 at 3200 fps and consider if you need any more ballistics than that for match shooting or north american hunting (applied ballistics just published Custom Drag Curves for your kestrel and a 0.332 G7 from a 1:7 twist 25-06 they tested). You should see very low recoil, very low wind deflection, and ample Kinetic Energy at 1000+ yards for ethical hunting. Of course the now standard 400-700 yard hunting we do shouldn't be a topic of argument like it may have been a few years ago.

This 257 Blackjack was designed to fit the Mountain Rifle men, the weekend match shooters, the matches like Nightforce ELR Challenge, the Hornady Precision Rifle Challenge, and other long range disciplines.

It is a lot of work and $$$ to get fully commercial but if you look at the case capacities list and what most shooters find a reasonable level of recoil, we think the 257 Blackjack is going to open up a lot of people's eyes to a balanced low-recoil, high-performance philosophy that has mostly been dominated by cartridges much larger than needed.

 

[RustyPin]

I've put several designs to paper based on Brass availability and existing Dies to make it easier for the end user. Every single one I made from Brass and dies I purchased to demonstrate viability. Playing with Brass is a rewarding Hobby, I got to learn about Hydro Forming, and Annealing, & Stuck Cases @#%! I would never dare to actually build a Rifle for every one due to high costs. It's disheartening to see your design end up in the hands of a major manufacturer without your approval so be warned.

I'd caution you on the salesmanship of certain vendors. Their job is to convince you your idea is the best thing that's ever happened all for the profit. I've heard good things regarding Manson Reamers. The days of instant success or recognition in Fairy Tales from a bygone era are pretty much behind us as pretty much everything has already been done and most Wildcats are forgotten to history. For instance my recent post regarding Otto's Short Action Magnum, developed prior to 1940 it's performance easily matches or surpasses today's SAUMS only scorned for it's Belt or longer OAL.

I'm still convinced my Military Rifleman Cartridges are better than anything in current use, but so are multiple others out there. I've garnered great enjoyment from this Hobby of mine and I impress thanks to those readers who've been patient regarding my endless posts full of odd drivel and hollow accomplishments. If it's good for you it's a great thing, Good Luck.

 

[MGYSGT]

I took the 6.8 SPC and necked it up to .30 and moved the shoulder forward .050. Should have moved it forward at least .100, but that is how it goes when you change things. Had PT&G make a reamer and Hornady made the dies. I did this so I could shoot it in a M4 rather that the larger A10. Shoots Hornady 110 VMax at 3000 fps with a max load. I usually keep it around 2900.

 

[Zero333]

If I was in your shoes wanting a 25 cal to shoot the 131 bj from a short action repeater, I'd go with the 6.5x47L. Neck down to 25 cal and 40 degree shoulders. 2,850-2900 fps with the 131 bj should be easy in a 24" stick.

You can get AI type mags that will handle 2.980" COAL. Like the Accurate mag without the binder plate and MDT also have a 10 and 12 rd with out binder plate.

 

[miningshawn]

Not wanting to necro my own thread... I have received a ton of PM's that have included some sage advice!

Right now the reamers (rough and finisher, 2 sets) are being drop shipped to McGowen Barrels. I have changed course on lengths, I will be ordering 1 at 32" and one at 24". Both will be McGowen 7 tapers and threaded for a Little Bastard Brake from APA. Still using the Remage system.

The Action is on it's way to McGowen from Defiance - it's a really long trip of about 30 miles... I chose the Defiance Ruckus with a smooth bolt nose.

My XLR chassis made it to the door while I was here at work. To wrap it all up I am dropping in a Timney Calvin Elite.

I have the wildcat tubes from Petersen; but, will be dropping some serious coin with RCC to machine the initial run of 200 pieces of brass. I will still be sending prints and cases to Whidden to create the sizing and seating dies.

I am hoping to start load testing by the end of July, but I wont hold my breath. First up will be 4350, RL 16, RL17, N160, and N550. I will be using BR2 small rifle primers.

Thanks again for the interest and the advice!

 

[NorCalMikie]

If you want to build a Wildcat, DO IT!! But consider this, with a little research you'll probably find that it's probably already been done, at least a few dozen times.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I gots a true 20-221AI, Whidden made dies- JGS did the reamer
20BRAI, JGS did reamer, Whidden dies. Also use my Harrell’s 2.5 brai size die, & Wilson 20Dasher arbor seater..


Well worth it in my book...

 

[Zero333]

Not wanting to necro my own thread... I have received a ton of PM's that have included some sage advice!

Right now the reamers (rough and finisher, 2 sets) are being drop shipped to McGowen Barrels. I have changed course on lengths, I will be ordering 1 at 32" and one at 24". Both will be McGowen 7 tapers and threaded for a Little Bastard Brake from APA. Still using the Remage system.

The Action is on it's way to McGowen from Defiance - it's a really long trip of about 30 miles... I chose the Defiance Ruckus with a smooth bolt nose.

My XLR chassis made it to the door while I was here at work. To wrap it all up I am dropping in a Timney Calvin Elite.

I have the wildcat tubes from Petersen; but, will be dropping some serious coin with RCC to machine the initial run of 200 pieces of brass. I will still be sending prints and cases to Whidden to create the sizing and seating dies.

I am hoping to start load testing by the end of July, but I wont hold my breath. First up will be 4350, RL 16, RL17, N160, and N550. I will be using BR2 small rifle primers.

Thanks again for the interest and the advice!

I assume the Calvin Elite you got is the Single Stage, but I'll still throw it out here that I have a Calvin Elite 2-stage on one of my rifles and I LOVE that trigger. I'm surprised how little interest there is for 2 stage triggers in North America.
Mind you I don't like very light triggers on Practical rifles. 1.2 to 1.5 lbs is my preference. I don't do benchrest.

 

[Fuj]

If you want to build a Wildcat, DO IT!! But consider this, with a little research you'll probably find that it's probably already been done, at least a few dozen times.

Ain't that the truth. The SLR's, Shermans, yadda yadda go way back.
Pre-internet wild cats are hard to track though. I have 3 good ones
under my belt in the last 40 years. That poor .308 case has been
used and abused since it's inception. Mine got weird since I was using
Schmidt -Ruben cases and had to defile the bolt heads. Then a friend
handed me some .284 Winchester cases. 30 years later and digging
out an old reloading book brought the project back to life. One of the
reason I just recently joined hear.....Mikie !! I have a thread about it
over on the Savage site. I'll get something posted up here maybe in a
week or so. Waiting on some Bergers and Beer.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I dabbled with cases designed around full length and blown out 416 Rigby cases.
My first was a .005” per inch taper 458 Rigby 45 degree shoulder. Very impressive velocities...with impressive recoil to boot.
Then my own 338-416 Rigby Improved 40 & 45 degree shoulder. Same .005” per inch taper. Settled on the 45 degree shoulder and still in use today. Rifle has only 321 rounds down the barrel and the haze cracking is still very slight. Throat erosion is about .016”. I think this should go 2000 rounds with good accuracy.

Cheers.