Has anyone here pioneered their own wildcat?

[miningshawn]

Has anyone here tried to pioneer their own wildcat, from the reamer design all the way to the end product? I'm working with Kiff on something new and the dollars are adding up quickly. I'm going to see this through; but, it is enough money to be missed on other projects! I would like to hear about your successes and pitfalls - what to do and what not to do. What would you have done differently?

So far it is PT&G for the reamers and action (B-12), McGowen for the barrels and stub gauges, Whidden for the dies, and Peterson wildcat tubes.

 

[Fast14riot]

I've worked with a few groups of people into Wildcats and if you can get a few people to pony up for barrels and dies, split cost of reamer and help with load development it can be a bit easier on the pocket book. I have a design I have been working on that may eventually get put into practice, but the theoretical numbers look mighty good so far!

 

[AndyA]

It is definitely expensive if you send all the work out to be done. I did a 6mm Valkyrie this winter doing all the machine work myself and although it was a lot of time, I am happy with the outcome. I took a used F-class barrel, cut it down and turned the shape on. I didn't use a reamer for the chamber but turned it in the lathe. I used a throating reamer for the freebore only and I was able to bore out off the shelf dies to work for me. Quickload was used early on to see if it was even worthwhile doing. I am getting a 85gr vld at 2850fps out of an 18" barrel.

I made the brass first and used that for a headspace gauge, being a wildcat I got to make that decision.

 

[miningshawn]

It is definitely expensive if you send all the work out to be done. I did a 6mm Valkyrie this winter doing all the machine work myself and although it was a lot of time, I am happy with the outcome. I took a used F-class barrel, cut it down and turned the shape on. I didn't use a reamer for the chamber but turned it in the lathe. I used a throating reamer for the freebore only and I was able to bore out off the shelf dies to work for me. Quickload was used early on to see if it was even worthwhile doing. I am getting a 85gr vld at 2850fps out of an 18" barrel.

I made the brass first and used that for a headspace gauge, being a wildcat I got to make that decision.

I have considered buying Quickload. This makes a stronger case. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Fast14riot]

Quickload and Quick Design really make it easy to decide of it's something worth pursuing.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Just did a "20 TCM" Wildcat. Took a 22 TCM case, necked it down to 20, stuffed a VLD bullet in the neck to where I wanted it, shipped it off to PT&G and had them cut a reamer to those specs.
Got the reamer back, picked up a couple of barrels, sent them off and had them threaded and chambered for my Savage actions.
Figured I had gone that far so I sent the dummy round off to Whidden and had them build me a full length sizer die and Micro Top seater die.
Figured you're only going around one time (unless you're Shirley MacLaine) and you can't take it with you unless you change it ($$$) into Travelers Checks so, I keep it in mind that I'ts only money. And after all those $$$ spent, still havn't taken it to the range. But it sure is fun so far.

 

[Sniper338]

Read stories on here all the time about people doing this...

6bra
6 grinch
220 redline

Just to name a few quick ones

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

Sit back in your recliner, pour yourself a little Single Malt Scotch, Glen Fiddich is never a wrong choice; and light up one of those Cuban cigars you smuggled in from Canada last fall. This might take a couple minutes.

I did, back about 30 years ago. I was writing for Precision Shooting Magazine, and got a lot of help (read: free product) from people like Keith Francis (JGS) and Dave Manson once I convinced them of the viability.
It is a three step process; from your fertile imagination to firing the first round.

1. What do you want to accomplish? I live in SW Idaho, so a flatter shooting cartridge for extending range. Ended up first with a 25 caliber wildcat that would shoot 100gr bullets to 4000fps.

2. Figure out case capacity, and a powder burn rate to allow 90%+ fill rate. Friend on the PS's kid was in the Army in Germany. Brought back a rifle chambered in 6,5x68 Shuler. Little bigger case than the 300 WM, and no belt. Think 264 WM on steroids. My project proceeded from a failed attempt to get a 25 BR that could compete with the PPC. Jerry Simison (sp?) made a set of bullet making dies, and Jef Fowler made both a 90gr FB, and a 110gr VLD pair of bullets.

3. Get the reamers cut, and build the rifle. Necked it down to 25 caliber, and blew out most of the taper. Looked like an overgrown 6-284. Case Capacity over 100gr. Found RVO-65 powder and started fire forming loads with the 100gr FB and used 90gr of surplus 4831. Would consistently put 5 bullets in the low .3" range at 100 yards. Voila!!

The second one was for Schuetzen shooting. Cast lead bullets. I won a Regional in Tacoma, at a Media/Celebrities Match. Went to the Coors Nationals, and did okay. Dean Miller and I were discussing a possible improvement over the 32-40. He had a 32 Miller, basically a 357 Maximum case tapered down. Better groups, but no better on the Agg (five 10-shot groups at 200yds). It was about 65% case fill with AA#9. I made a SWAG and suggested we might just cut 1/4" off case length to get closer to that 100% range. I got reamers cut, and Dean built me a rifle over the winter. To say it was a success would be an understatement. No other cartridge has won a Regional or the Nationals in over 20 years. By accident, we created the 6PPC of Scheutzen.

Third one is a bit less popular, I necked the 505 Gibbs case up to 550 caliber with a small shoulder and took it hunting in Africa. I will just say, it is a proven Elephant killer. Five shots, three dead Elephants. Sometimes, a plan just comes together.

Good Luck with your project.

 

[INTJ]

My very next barreling project is a little less ambitious, but it's not something I have seen around much. 33-28 Nosler. Should be like a 340 Wby without a belt or freebore.

I am just going to run in a 33 Nosler reamer another .120" and headspace with a 28 Nosler go gauge. I will seat with a 33 Nosler seater and size with a 28 Nosler bushing sizer that gets the throat drilled out with a $40 solid carbide bit.

It's going on a stainless new M-70 action in a B&C ultralight stock (the one with the aluminum bedding block). It currently wears a 26" fluted #4, and that will be replaced with a non-fluted #4 and will weigh about 8.5 lbs with the scope.

I may need to get a windowed magazine box.

 

[357Mag]

Minigshawn -

Howdy !

Yes..... I have designed my own wildcat’s, case formed numerous trial examples; and even had 2 of my designs chambered for use on varmints and targets.

I designed my first after I had been reloading CF cases for 2yr. I was a NE Indiana farm boy, and enjoyed shooting “Soybeanus Digestus”.

After multiple factory .22-250’s, mild and full custom .22-250’s; I wanted to upgrade to .224” cal cartridge w/ more case capacity terminal performance capability. I did not want to shoot the .220 Swift, which had a rim and had to be excessively long to obtain its case capacity.

I decided to neck-down .35 Remington to . 224” cal, which gave me what I believed to be ideal case capacity for propelling a 55SX from a 24” barrel.

I spec’d the chamber and re-size reamers that Clymer provided. I also spec’d the custom case forming set that RCBS made for me. Had a Wilson case length gage and Wilson bullet seater that my riflesmith Fred Sinclair made up for me using the reamers. Later added a shoulder bump/ bushing NS die Hornady provided me.

I wrote P.O. Ackley about my wildcat. He responded back in a letter dated
10 Apr 1975, and one comment He made was: “ The .35 Remington should make a good .22 calibre wildcat when necked down to take the smaller bullet “. As I have previously stated in other posts..... I took Ackley’s comment as a pretty good passing grade on my wildcat’ design !

I used that rifle to get me into the 500yd club ( a 510yd groundhog kill made using a prototype 55”V-Max” ). I was very happy w/ the accuracy and terminal performance .22-35 had given me shooting 55gr varmint bullets from a 24” 1-14 barreled rifle. I also shot .22-35 in a 29” 1-8 barreled rifle, using 75”A-Max” exclusively. Dual role’ varmint/ target.

When I decided to switch to 6mm, I designed my own 6mm wildcat to have what I believed would be about minimal case capacity for shooting varmint or target out to 1,000yd. Knowing full well the myriad of costs associated w/ custom rifles and wildcatting, I seized upon the idea of using an existing 6mm chamber reamer run in “ short “, to give me the new 6mm wildcat’s chamber. “ NO custom reamers to buy “ !

My initial trial case was a fore-shortened 6mm Remington, where base diam was around .455” ;and .35 Remington would be used as the parent case. I formed trial cases using a LEE 6.5 X55 Swedish FL die w/ internals removed... as the case forming die. I also used a “perch” made from a .308 shell holder, 1/4-20 flat head machine screw w/ head diam< .455”; and a 1/4-20 lock nut. The perch snaps into the press’ arbor. For case forming, brass to be wildcatted is placed atop the perch; and press handle operated to advance case up-into the 6.5 X 55 case forming die.

Cases are detail trimmed to desired case oal, inside neck reamed and outside neck turned to arrive @ final 6mm calibre. The resulting 6mm wildcat case has capacity between that of a 6PPC and a 6BR..... too small for my idea of a 1,000yd capability (IMHO ).

I soon realized that using a frustrum of the 6mm Remington “cone “ featuring a nominal .466” base diam would give me the case capacity I desired ! I use 7x64 Brenneke as the parent case, as it has the required .466” base diam. 7X64 is .308 bolt face compatible rimless. I utilize a Norma brass. For this larger capacity 6mm case, I was again able to use the same 6.5 X 55 FL die and “perch “ for case forming.

I paid 2-way postage to borrow a 6mm Remington reamer from a shooter I met on line. It had been spec’d for a fitted neck, and had not been used. Once again.... “ NO custom chamber or resize reamers necessary, and NO custom case forming dies to buy “ ! This is affordable wildcatting !

I call this wildcat “DEEP 6”. Case capacity is 51.2gr H2O. Compare to .243 Win @ 54gr H2O. It has the same long VLD-friendly neck the
6mm Rem has, and easy-to-form 26* shoulder angle. Together, those 2 features keep the powder combustion “ turbulence point “ inside the neck.
Cases emerge from the form die in near-net shape. They are trimmed to desired case aol.... inside neck reamed and outside neck turned.... to arrive @ final 6mm calibre and neck wall thickness desired.

DEEP 6 cases are very robust, as they are formed from the bottom portion of the 7X64 case. Upper case walls and shoulder area a a tad thicker than what is encountered on many other cases.

DEEP 6 cases are loaded/re-loaded using stock (non-custom ) 6mm Remington reloading dies. I use a Hornady universal style bullet seater outfitted w/ a 6mm Remington case holding “ sleeve “. I also got to re-use my Hornady shoulder bump/ bushing NS die, by inserting appropriate 6mm NS bushings. “ NO custom reloading dies to buy “ !

I am very happy w/ the performance and accuracy capabilities DEEP 6 has given me !

The pic below shows Lt to Rt:
- “ 6.5 KIWI “, a wildcat I designed for a New Zealand Tar shooter.
- “ DEEP 6 “ w/ 95 VLD seated
- “ .22–35 Remington “ w/ 75”A-Max” seated.




I formed all sorts of other wildcat cases/calibers.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Has anyone here tried to pioneer their own wildcat, from the reamer design all the way to the end product? I'm working with Kiff on something new and the dollars are adding up quickly. I'm going to see this through; but, it is enough money to be missed on other projects! I would like to hear about your successes and pitfalls - what to do and what not to do. What would you have done differently?

So far it is PT&G for the reamers and action (B-12), McGowen for the barrels and stub gauges, Whidden for the dies, and Peterson wildcat tubes.

Yes, I’ve done numerous from 50 BMG Improved & 416 Barrett down to a couple of 20 calibers. - One of the very first steps that I do is obtain a good supply of “parent brass cases” so that the dies (re-size reamer for chambering reloading dies) and the finisher chambering reamer are matched up. Quick-Design Software (same creator as Quick-Load) can also be beneficial when building / exploring hypothetical models. - And heat treating of the Full-Length Sizer die is also important.

Good Luck on your endeavors.

Ron

 

[R.Morehouse]

I am pretty sure at this point there is nothing that has not been done. Maybe not shared in the pages of this wonderful site.....But there is a lot that isn't. Anyone can tweak a reamer print and blow out or squish down a piece of existing brass to pretty much any configuration they can imagine and tack their name on it. Just take a look at the 6mm variants....Put pretty much any of them in the hands of some top active shooters that grace the pages of our site and you will have the next "flavor of the week" within a year.......But tweaking & playing IS fun & we do it so well. I think it is important to not delude yourself into thinking you are going to re-invent the wheel......But by ALL means, have at it and share it here for us all to ponder and appreciate your time & efforts....

Regards
Rick

 

[Ggmac]

Has anyone here tried to pioneer their own wildcat, from the reamer design all the way to the end product? I'm working with Kiff on something new and the dollars are adding up quickly. I'm going to see this through; but, it is enough money to be missed on other projects! I would like to hear about your successes and pitfalls - what to do and what not to do. What would you have done differently?

So far it is PT&G for the reamers and action (B-12), McGowen for the barrels and stub gauges, Whidden for the dies, and Peterson wildcat tubes.

Dozens of times . In the 70s a 460 Weatherby case with a body length of 1.8 " and a .250 to .375 neck ( 2 different designs ) necked down to 6.5 .
That was the beginning of dozens of what I thought would set the world on fire designs . Wrong , just money spent on dreams of ******
Good luck ,

Ps , I still have a dozen or so custom made wildcats if you want to claim them as your own , go for it .

 

[338 dude]

Do a search for swamp Lord he has plenty of calibers with no parent case completely unique to himself

 

[miningshawn]

Great info so far, please keep it coming!

So here's where I am at.
I started with the bullet - the Blackjack ACE 131gr. I made my list of considerations for a competition bolt action to be fired through the magazine. The list:

1.) Max COAL of 2.860 for the round to be able to fire from a 2.880 AICS magazine
2.) Touches the lands at max magazine length
3.) Uses common small primer brass for the parent case - I settled on .308 Win, small primer
4.) Fits a standard .473 bolt face
5.) 2750 - 3000 fps

I made up a quick sketch and started with this:



Using a .308 Win as the parent case I decided to leave the minimal wall taper in place. I pulled the neck back and left it at 1.333 bullet diameter. I tapered the shoulders to 40 degrees. I moved the shoulders back to intercept the bullet at the neck-shoulder junction at the base of the boattail.

This is where I moved on to professional help. I called Kiff at PT&G and asked for his input and advice after giving him these details. He only had a couple of recommendations which I of course followed. I now have the reamer prints! Dave said he needed a name.... The Quarter Norton (.25 Norton) is born!

The reamers (2 rough and 2 finish) are being drop shipped to McGowen for barrels. One 26" and one 22", muzzle threaded 5\8, McGowen #7 contour, Remage threading, starting with standard steel\blued. I will be getting stub gauges.

McGowen will be drop shipping one set of reamers, and I will be sending the reamer prints as well, to Whidden for hydroforming dies. After I get a few cases fire-formed it will be off to ?XYZ? manufacturer for sizing and competition seating dies. I am thinking .308-7mm\08-260 rem bushing down to .257 (custom length for the shorter body) and finish with hydro-forming.

I will be using a PT&G B-12 action, a Remage barrel, an XLR Envy chassis, a Timney Calvin Elite, and AISC magazines.

I bought all of the available Peterson wildcat tubes in small primer, and I will probably buy many more. I am looking for a company to do a run of 2500 with a headstamp?

Future challenges include initial sizing and fire-forming. For load development I will be starting with RL17, 4350, 4831SC, RL19, H-100V, all of which I have 5lbs or more of each. I am hoping for 2750-3000fps, from the magazine, with ability to touch the lands. Gordon's Reloading Tool thinks this can be achieved under 55,000. If so, then this little pill should go to 1400 yards and hang right in there with the heavy 6.5mm's.

I will also be loading for the Berger 115's. The max COAL of the Berger is well within the Blackjack, another reason for the shortened chamber.

Soooo. Not necking up or necking down of a standard cartridge. Kind of an Ackley variant. Full forming of the neck and shoulder. Nothing like starting easy.

Please keep that experience coming! I am sure there are things that I have missed and money being spent unwisely.

 

[357Mag]

Miningshawn -

Howdy !

Have you given any thought to perhaps going w/ a slightly longer neck length ?

It looks like the powder combustion “ turbulence point “ for your current design would fall outside of the neck, ahead of the case mouth ?

I knowingly went w/ the same sort of turbulence point location on my .22-35 Remington
wildcat. Despite my using a non-coated steel cleaning rod on the rifle that had a high comb for a few years... and a late-in-life cryo on the barrel ( that made chunks of the throat come out )....
my Hart 23” SS 1-14 5 groove went 3,420 rnd before ever keyholing its first bullet.
Still..... I mention the above because I am convinced a more favorable neck lg would have likely given me more barrel longevity. And, those things are $$$ !!

FWIW-
A slight neck lg increase would not harm feeding from the Mag, nor would it negatively impact your desired final cartridge oal.

Just wondering......


With regards,
357Mag

 

[miningshawn]

Miningshawn -

Howdy !

Have you given any thought to perhaps going w/ a slightly longer neck length ?

It looks like the powder combustion “ turbulence point “ for your current design would fall outside of the neck, ahead of the case mouth ?

I knowingly went w/ the same sort of turbulence point location on my .22-35 Remington
wildcat. Despite my using a non-coated steel cleaning rod on the rifle that had a high comb for a few years... and a late-in-life cryo on the barrel ( that made chunks of the throat come out )....
my Hart 23” SS 1-14 5 groove went 3,420 rnd before ever keyholing its first bullet.
Still..... I mention the above because I am convinced a more favorable neck lg would have likely given me more barrel longevity. And, those things are $$$ !!

FWIW-
A slight neck lg increase would not harm feeding from the Mag, nor would it negatively impact your desired final cartridge oal.

Just wondering......


With regards,
357Mag

I went with 40 degree shoulders and a neck length of 1.3 diameters (.310) to promote the toroid area at 1/2 the brass neck depth. I also believe that sharp shoulders promote case combustion until someone changes my mind.

All things the same, I could go with a longer neck (.350 - .400). Thanks for the advice!

 

[Webster]

Has anyone here tried to pioneer their own wildcat, from the reamer design all the way to the end product? I'm working with Kiff on something new and the dollars are adding up quickly. I'm going to see this through; but, it is enough money to be missed on other projects! I would like to hear about your successes and pitfalls - what to do and what not to do. What would you have done differently?

So far it is PT&G for the reamers and action (B-12), McGowen for the barrels and stub gauges, Whidden for the dies, and Peterson wildcat tubes.

I guess I am pretty conservative. Why the expense and trouble for all of the custom design, reamer, dies ect. There are some many good existing calibers to chose from.. You will probably never be able to sell the rifle.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Has anyone here tried to pioneer their own wildcat, from the reamer design all the way to the end product? I'm working with Kiff on something new and the dollars are adding up quickly. I'm going to see this through; but, it is enough money to be missed on other projects! I would like to hear about your successes and pitfalls - what to do and what not to do. What would you have done differently?

So far it is PT&G for the reamers and action (B-12), McGowen for the barrels and stub gauges, Whidden for the dies, and Peterson wildcat tubes.

Yes. Back in 2012, disappointed with the quality of Remington 7mm RSAUM brass (when you could get it) for my 7mm RSAUM; I worked with Dave Kiff for him to provide me a reamer take-off of the 7mm RSAUM by "wildcatting" Norma .300 WSM brass, and using the Berger 7mm 180 grain Hybrid. We did it in two ways. First was for regular 30 degree shoulder and second was for 40 degree shoulder. I called out the first cartridge as "7mm RSAUM Gooseneck" and the later, "7mm RSAUM Gooseneck Improved". "Gooseneck" came from the long necks left on the wildcatted .300 WSM case that were not trimmed off. I also used Norma .270 WSM to make the 30 degree shoulder version. After Dave provided the reamer print(s), I turned them over to John Whidden to make dies in each case. A simple Wilson seating type die, and a modified FL die...a die without the normal de-capping/expander ball assembly. Costs were minimal. But, case shaping was tedious and used a lot of powder/bullets. I shot the two wildcats for several years in F-Class Open. Barrel life was not unlike what I experienced for the straight 7mm RSAUM. With the advent of the .284 Shehane, I drifted away from the two wildcats. Attached is a photo of the "gooseneck improved" in load development back in 2012, 10-shot group at 200 yards.

I was strictly in a search for a case substitute, not a cartridge development affair.

Dan

 

[rockhound78]

Mine came along when I shot a Pig during an IHMSA match, with a full bore 7-08 and it just shook. Fellow walked by and laughed and said "more powder, bigger bullet". My thoughts were---I will teach you to make fun of my gun, and an idea was born that maybe I could make a 44 cal something, since I was shooting a lot of 44mag then, so I thought about the biggest case that would work with the 308 bf and the short action. Decided to use the 284 win case. Called Cymer and had a reamer made for the 44-284. I was just guessing at neck dia. and had to have a second reamer made when the first one had the neck to small.
Bought a barrel blank from Douglas and with my ancient logan lathe, produced a barrel for my xp100 and did my first ream job. Turned out fair, little bit of chatter with the reamer, but did I say this was my first chambering job, heck, my first barreling job too. No schooling, just reading a book.

Sized the body with a 45-70 size die and sized the neck with my 44 mag die. Started playing with different powders and came up with a wonderful H335 load. Would throw a fireball about 6 ft long. 240gr Bullet at app. 1900 fps. First match I shot it, people thought my gun blew up (had a muzzle brake on it too!!) and refused to shoot next to me. Missed one Ram as had two different sight settings written down, so used the first one, when I should have used the second one. Bought another Douglas barrel and built a rifle using the 44-284 reamer. Shot my first Elk with it.