I know that Mike Walker developed an effective method to button rifle barrels. He allowed Hart to use this process, but my understanding is that there were no Remington factory rifles equipped with Hart barrels. I have seen numerous references to factory 40Xs that have Hart barrels. Is this "urban legend" or fact? Please advise. Thanks, James Mock
Hart Barrels on Factory Remingtons???
- Thread starter JDMock
- Start date
James, I've looked into this in the past and have not been able to substantiate any factoy use of Hart barrels. There is a Remington proof mark that is somewhat heart shaped and this may be the source of the often repeated theory that the barrel is a Hart. Of course, many rifles have been rebarelled by Hart, but that's another matter.
You may not be able to substantiate this one way or another. The reason I say this is that the Remington Custom Shop installs barrels made by Remington (button rifled in the custom shop - not hammer forged as in the factory) and in some instances and depending on the caliber, install other barrels such as Shilen. I think the 40X rifles are produced only in the custom shop. So a rifle made in or re-barreled in the custom shop could and I emphasize could have a barrel other than a Remington. I think most barrels installed by the Custom Shop are Remington barrels (made in the custom shop). But it would not surprise me if at some point they used Hart just like they sometimes now use Shilen's. This is purely logical speculation on my part. The real reason that I think it will be hard to substantiate is that since Mike Walker's time there have been a few generations of employees that work in and manage the custom shop and details like these get lost. I don't know if they record things like this. They do use heart shaped inspection stamps that have nothing to do with Hart. I would doubt that the main factory ever installed barrels other than those made by Remington. They would be too costly. The factory mass produced rifles and those that are made in the custom shop are two very different things. To complicate this subject all the more, the custom shop does at times perform repairs on some factory produced rifles. I don't know if this helps or ads more uncertainty. Peter.
James, I bet if you asked PJ or Jim Hart, they could tell you.
I really hope you guys find this out. I was told by a dealer a show a few months ago that his 222 rem mag had a hart barrel on it, and he showed me the heart shaped proof mark. He also went on to say that almost all the original xp-100's had this proof mark and they were all hart barrels, and why they shot so well. I really doubted what he said, but never bothered to check on it either. It would be good to know.
I too have had the gun show dealer who is an "expert" in all things 40X try to convince me that the "all original 40X's" he had were equipped with "factory" Hart barrels, and went on to show me the heart shaped proof mark as well. As we all know, Remington used that proof mark on many barrels produced by Remington itself, and this in no way indicates the barrel in question to be one produced by Hart.
I doubt that any substantial number of 40X's were ever equipped with Hart barrels from the factory, though I would believe that in special instances, and those are likely rare, that Remington may have substituted an aftermarket barrel, and possibly a Hart, on some of it's custom builds that required barrels with specs that they did not normally produce. But as far as there being any large number of 40X's with Hart barrels, I seriously doubt it. Though on another note, I have also been told by some older fellows I know, that back in the day, Remington would build you a custom rifle with basically any parts you wanted, and I would think if you were willing to spend the money, they would likely supply you with a barrel from whatever manufacturer you desired.
But, if this is true that Remington did purchase a number of barrels from Hart, then I would think that Hart would have invoice records of these transactions, or at least have some recollection of selling a number of barrels to Remington.
I feel that if there were a large number of Hart equipped 40X's produced, there would be more record of it somewhere. If there are any of the fabled Hart 40X's in existence, I think they are few and far between, with the number produced likely being less than 1000 of all those ever produced. If there were more, there would be some type of record in existence to prove otherwise, at least one would think so anyway.
This is all speculation and I have no real proof, but I just don't believe there to be "thousands" of Hart barreled 40X's.
If there are, I hope some proof can materialize and put this myth or legend to rest.
I doubt that any substantial number of 40X's were ever equipped with Hart barrels from the factory, though I would believe that in special instances, and those are likely rare, that Remington may have substituted an aftermarket barrel, and possibly a Hart, on some of it's custom builds that required barrels with specs that they did not normally produce. But as far as there being any large number of 40X's with Hart barrels, I seriously doubt it. Though on another note, I have also been told by some older fellows I know, that back in the day, Remington would build you a custom rifle with basically any parts you wanted, and I would think if you were willing to spend the money, they would likely supply you with a barrel from whatever manufacturer you desired.
But, if this is true that Remington did purchase a number of barrels from Hart, then I would think that Hart would have invoice records of these transactions, or at least have some recollection of selling a number of barrels to Remington.
I feel that if there were a large number of Hart equipped 40X's produced, there would be more record of it somewhere. If there are any of the fabled Hart 40X's in existence, I think they are few and far between, with the number produced likely being less than 1000 of all those ever produced. If there were more, there would be some type of record in existence to prove otherwise, at least one would think so anyway.
This is all speculation and I have no real proof, but I just don't believe there to be "thousands" of Hart barreled 40X's.
If there are, I hope some proof can materialize and put this myth or legend to rest.
The dealers that are telling you that the gallery inspection stamp is an indication of the manufacturer of the barrel are at best mis-informed. The heart shaped stamp is a gallery inspection stamp assigned to a specific employee just like others that have an anchor etc. This is stamped after the rifle passes whatever the inspection process is that the employee was assigned to. The retailer is duping you by virtue of the coincidence of the heart shaped inspection stamp with the Hart name and the geographical proximity of Hart Barrels in Lafayette, NY with Remington in Ilion, NY. It seems plausible but the purpose of the stamps on a Remington barrel has nothing to do with the manufacturer of its components. This story can also be muddied by the history that Mike Walker had with Hart Barrels but again this has nothing to do with inspection stamping or repair work. I think that what others have said about the Custom Shop building a rifle with whatever components or barrel the customer wants is probably true. Additionally the Custom Shop periodically purchases barrels from outside sources and probably bids these purchases. So the supplier could change depending on who wins the bid. But again this would not be reflected in the stamps. You can also search the Remington Society pages or post on that forum where they will help you with exactly what your stampings mean. Best of luck, Peter.
One would think that Remington would advertise the fact that they use premium (expensive) barrels on their rifles. (like Weatherby does with the Krieger barrels). I have talked to Mike Walker, Jack Sutton, & P.J. Hart; and none have mentioned that they supplied barrels for Remington. The next time that a person says that his Remington has a Hart barrel, please ask him how he knows. I have had several Remingtons with Hart barrels, but I had my gunsmith install each one. Good shooting....James
Kevin Taylor
Gold $$ Contributor
This has been an on going debate for most of my adult life, what would you consider definitive proof for this one way or another? Unfortunately we can’t just go ask some of the key players.
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