HANGFIRE

[Webster]

I had a few hang fires recently and decided to trouble shoot the problem. Last year I also had hangfires with a different brand primer. I’ll try to make this short and leave out a few details. The primers seemed to be seated deep enough and had good indents. Only 2 hangfires this year.

Details seemed to fall in place after realizing that the problem seemed to start last year when I took apart two Lee priming tools. One for large primer and one for small primers. I noticed that the aluminum cam was worn on the small primer handle. The wear looks like about 2-4 thou metal lost. The problem seemed to start when I put the small shell holder on the good no wear handle that was used for large primers?

1. It took more force than what I thought was normal to seat primers but I assumed it was OK because the primers were seated below the head and all the shells fired properly.

2. Decided to measure primer pocket depth, new primer height, fired primer height, and the height the primer tool rod protruding above the shell holder.

3. The fired primers were 0.004” less in height than an unfired primer. The fired anvil protruded outside the cup less.

4. The primer tool seating rod protruded higher than necessary.

5. Looks like I was seating with too much force shoving the anvil tip too far into the primer charge.

6. Cheap solution: I unscrewed the shell holder ¼ turn, about 0.004” less push.

7. Need to shoot to confirm. May account for unexplained flyers.

Too cheap to buy a new tool. The old one is adjustable. Have not gone to the range yet. Probably good idea to take the shell holder off and clean and lube once a year. Quality primer tools are probably all steel.



The shiny area is wear.

 

[M-61]

Did you have a hang fire or a misfire?

 

[MagnumManiac]

I don't understand your question.
A hangfire is caused by either a powder that is too low in density in the charge, or a very slow powder that cannot fill the case enough to burn correctly.
None of the above appears to be a hangfire that you are describing.

Another point, the anvil can only go flush with the cup bottom, mechanically it cannot go further than this, BUT, you can depress the cup and deform it crushing/cracking the priming pellet. The primers should still have their radius-ed edges, if they are flat, you are squashing them too much.
A hand primer is easy to feel when the primer bottoms out.
I went to the aid of a fellow shooter that was having misfires, he bought the RCBS hand priming tool, the first style they made several years ago.
I asked him to show me how he was priming his cases. He showed me, and he was using both hands to press the handle into the body with his KNEES!
I told him that is why he was getting misfires, the primers were so crushed it was noticeable from a distance.
I showed him how the tool was supposed to be used, and asked him where the instructions were, he said they went in the bin with the box the day he bought it, without reading past how to put it together!

Cheers.

 

[Webster]

I don't understand your question.
A hangfire is caused by either a powder that is too low in density in the charge, or a very slow powder that cannot fill the case enough to burn correctly.
None of the above appears to be a hangfire that you are describing.

Another point, the anvil can only go flush with the cup bottom, mechanically it cannot go further than this, BUT, you can depress the cup and deform it crushing/cracking the priming pellet. The primers should still have their radius-ed edges, if they are flat, you are squashing them too much.
A hand primer is easy to feel when the primer bottoms out.
I went to the aid of a fellow shooter that was having misfires, he bought the RCBS hand priming tool, the first style they made several years ago.
I asked him to show me how he was priming his cases. He showed me, and he was using both hands to press the handle into the body with his KNEES!
I told him that is why he was getting misfires, the primers were so crushed it was noticeable from a distance.
I showed him how the tool was supposed to be used, and asked him where the instructions were, he said they went in the bin with the box the day he bought it, without reading past how to put it together!

Cheers.

I call it a hangfire. The firing pin fell then an instant later the gun went off. I suspect that you are correct that I was deforming the cup top. An increase in the flat area of the cup was not noticable but I am sure it was pressed way too hard. I am using 8208 and RE15 powder both are recommended for the 6BR with light bullets. Several thousand rounds were fired with these powders without problems. There is no doubt I was pushing the primers way to hard with the priming tool. Reducing the amount the seating post protruded above the shell holder allowed the primers to seat with a lot less pressure. I was seating the primers then pushing harder until I couldn't move the handle. Way too much. I have been reloading for about 45 years before I had a hang fire.
What started this was my Lee priming tool wasn't seating the primers below the case head. Inspection of the 45 YO aluminum cam that pushes the seating rod showed a lot of wear. Then I put my 6BR small primer shell holder on my other Lee priming tool with no wear on the cam. This new setup had the seating rod protruding way too much and I was using a large amount of force to do what I thought was proper seating since the primers were below the case head. Crushing the primers had to be the cause of a small number of hangfires. In any case I have improved the situation. If there is a hangfire without a perceptable time delay it may have been causing my 4 in 1 hole 1 out. Time will tell. Thanks for the comments.

 

[M-61]

Yes, you called it correctly...a hang fire.
Glad you have it sorted out.

 

[mikecr]

Webster, you're investigation is leading to exactly what an indicated K&M priming tool accounts for by design.
If you had one, you would discover that it takes very little effort to seat and preload a primer correctly.

It is always interesting when primers go off differently than others.