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Handloading: Old School vs. New School

Jager

Gold $$ Contributor
The shot breaks clean, an echo from across the years. As the rifle comes out of recoil the first thing my eyes see is the magnified image of the target. Good. The 90gr Scenar-L POI is not far from the POI of the 100gr Winchester factory rounds I have dialed the scope in with.

The scope zero will be fine for this ladder.

But then my eye shifts to the screen of the LabRadar. In large numerals, ‘2675’ stares back at me.

Huh?

My hand reaches across and extracts the card from the lid of the box. No, I’m not dreaming. The load should be making 2950 fps, and just over 50K psi.

One more glance at the LabRadar. Four bars of signal. That was a good read.

Mentally shrugging, I send the next two rounds. They’re low too.

Working slowly up the ladder, the progression of velocity and pressure continues in lockstep. Everything is orderly. There are no surprises. Other than that everything is between 200 and 250 fps slower than it should be.

Forty years ago when we wanted to develop a load, we’d spread out an assortment of loading manuals, pore over data for the exact bullet if we were lucky, or a close analog if we weren’t, and begin to narrow in on what might work. Extrapolating all that data to our own rifle, we’d guestimate velocity and pressure. Chronographs were around, but very few shooters had access to one. The numbers written in the load manuals were our proxy. The old three-ring binder that served as my handload log for so many years had countless “EV” – estimated velocity – references.

Then we’d head to the bench and put together what John Wooters called a pressure series. What we today call a ladder.

A lot of really good ammo got made that way. And a fair bit of not-so-good, as well.

Most of us never really knew what we had. We could see groups, of course. How accurate a load was. And how it performed on game. But when the book said the max load was x grains of y powder, and that load would give you this velocity at that pressure… you pretty much had to take it at its word.

The problem I’m having here, today, now – a series of loads, each performing a couple hundred feet per second slower than it should – would probably have gone undetected. Shot at distance, the verticals would tell the tale. But most of us would have just shrugged and concluded it was one more marketing-department-inspired ballistic coefficient writing a check that the real world could never cash. We’d assume that our muzzle velocity was pretty close to that ‘EV’ we had happily written down.

Two things changed all that for me: Affordable, accurate chronographs. And QuickLoad.

Used together, they give shooters a glimpse into what historically has been a black box. They give us insight into the actual pressures we are running.

In this case I was using an old rifle – the oldest centerfire rifle I own, a Model 70 in .243 Win, purchased new when I was a very young man – but not fired in 37 years. But I would be using a new bullet – a Lapua 90gr Scenar-L. And a new powder – Accurate 4350. The dozens of loads I conocted for the rifle back in the day didn’t matter. This was new in every way that mattered.

I model the loads I intend to build in QuickLoad, before I ever weigh the first charge. If it’s a powder I’ve already calibrated, and the cartridge context is similar, I am entirely comfortable going straight to near-maximum load. Or even a slightly over-maximum load. Ladders are for finding accuracy nodes, not for discovering where the pressure limit is.

If it’s an uncalibrated powder/cartridge context, then you’re left with running QuickLoad defaults. You do that knowing that what it tells you is going to be off, but will probably be in the ballpark. My current Handload Log – now electronic – includes columns not just for “Predicted Velocity” and “Predicted Pressure,” but also for “Adjusted Prediction – Velocity” and “Adjusted Prediction – Pressure.” Real world chrono data lets you tweak QuickLoad so that its predictions are reflective of what, in fact, you are going to get.

None of which is to suggest that load manuals no longer have a place. To the contrary, they are gold mines of information. The thousands of hours of ballistics lab hours that went into their making are simply priceless.

Lapua does not provide load data on their bullets. The Berger 90gr Match BT Target bullet is very similar to the Scenar-L, though, and Berger’s max load for their bullet, using IMR-4350 (similar to A4350), is 42.6, producing 3033 fps.

Another analog is the Sierra 90gr TGK. Sierra lists max for that bullet, using the exact same A4350 powder as I intend, at 43.7, producing 3140 fps.

So with those two book loads in hand as supporting evidence, I was entirely comfortable with QuickLoad’s (default) prediction that 43.0/A4350 would produce something in the neighborhood of 3100 fps at around 59,000 psi. That was my max.

QL_Lapua_90gr_ScenarL_43.0gr_A4350.png


The whole ladder:

Loads_117-121, Expected&Actual Velocities, Pressures.png

243 Win, Loads 117-121.png

My dilemma here, then, the thing that gave me pause… was that adjusting QuickLoad so that it would match real world velocities involved much more than a “tweak.”

The primary mechanism QuickLoad uses for adjusting its results, for calibrating it, is an editable element called Burning Rate Factor. Each powder is different. When you select A4350, the program default is 0.3810. Adjusting it until the program predictions closely mirror actual chrono data requires bringing it down to the neighborhood of 0.3365. That is a staggering amount of change.

But putting aside my squinty eyed look for a moment, and dutifully following my process, making that Burning Rate Factor change, makes that same ladder look like this:

Loads_117-121, Expected&Actual Velocities, Pressures, after adjustment.png


The obvious inference from this view is that the reason my actual velocities were down is because I was actually running quite mild pressures. And that there’s still plenty of room before approaching SAAMI max.

And, yet, Berger and Sierra would seemingly beg to differ. Their 42.6 and 43.7 max, respectively, is difficult to dismiss. Get it wrong and an extended-ladder max charge could look like this:

QL_Lapua_90gr_ScenarL_45.5gr_A4350_default_burn_rate.png


Sleeping on it, I wake knowing what I’m going to do. Firing up the AutoTrickler, I quickly put together 21 fresh rounds:

Loads_122-128, Expected&Actual Velocities, Pressures.png

New School.
 
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I'm glad that story has a happy ending.

Do you think it is just a particularly soft batch of AA4350 or just another example of how things unfold in load development?
 
I agree that this is a nice read but is this really any different than going to Hodgdon load data page and then going to the Hornady 10th and seeing two different starting and maximum load data numbers for the 95 gn Vmax and VArget or H4895 ? Then going to the range and finding the chrono numbers don't match either.
 
Very nice write-up!

The burn rate (Ba) values used by QuickLoad do not take into account cartridge shape/size, bullet weight, bore dimensions, Lot-to-Lot powder variation, primer brisance, etc. So there are quite a number of factors that can affect how close an initial velocity predicted for a given charge weight using the factory preset Ba will be to the actual measured velocity. In my hands the factory preset Ba is usually within 25 to 50 fps of the actual measured average value for a given charge weight. However, I had seen them be off by 75 to 100 fps on rare occasions. Like you, I find that concerning. Nonetheless, I always "calibrate" QuickLoad to a given setup by using the average velocity from a known charge weight (safely reduced load). I then input the ambient temperature and adjust the Ba until the predicted velocity exactly matches the measured average velocity for that charge weight. From that point on, the predictions are usually quite good with one major caveat. The farther away the "calibration" charge weight is from the final charge weight, the less accurate the predictions are likely to be. I believe this stems in a large part from the generally linear predictive outputs of QuickLoad. In the real world, pressure and velocity are not always linear except within a fairly narrow and defined charge weight range. Sometimes, I find myself having to repeat the "calibration" step with a slightly higher charge weight if the initial "calibration" charge weight I chose was too low and the velocity/pressure too far away from where I thought the load should end up. It can be annoying when that happens, but it's not that big of a deal.

In your specific example above, the real difference from what I have observed is the magnitude of the difference between the predicted and actual velocity/pressure values. I can't tell you exactly where in the manual it is located, but as I recall, the QL manual has some suggestions on what to do if you find yourself having to adjust the preset Ba value by more than a certain amount. It's been a long time since I looked at it and I don't remember the specific details because I've never actually had to put them to use. Nonetheless, it may be of interest to you and I'm sure you can find that section in the manual if you look for it.
 
I too usually find QL to be within 25-50 fps from my chrono most of the time.
I do have one rifle where velocities are about 150fps slower than predicted.
And one that is 100 fps faster.
Both with using the same powder, out of the same jug.
I noted in my log that "X" rifle gives slower or faster velocities.

Changing the burn rate of a powder in QL, would require a set velocity difference in several different rifles.

I also like to verify using a longer distance.
BC are set fairly well by now on bullets. If advertized BC is off, it is usually called out fairly quickly!
I usually change my velocity first for my ballistic calculations.

Be safe!
 
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Do you think it is just a particularly soft batch of AA4350 or just another example of how things unfold in load development?
That's a great question, one I contemplated at some length. I did find it curious that the (just purchased) canisters of A4350 I had were both labeled "Double-Base."

Accurate_4350_front.jpg

That's clearly incorrect, as all the 4350 variants (IMR-4350, H4350, and A4350) are single-base powders. But it made me wonder if, perhaps, they had made a change. So I reached out to Western Powder... who confirmed that a few incorrect labels had "slipped through." It, indeed, remains a single-base powder. And no recent manufacturing changes have been made.

I chalk it up to either an unusually soft lot of powder; or QuickLoad's (default) burn rate being wrong. I've observed many instances where QL's database is incorrect with respect to things like bullet length. They usually get powder burn rate fairly close.
 
I agree that this is a nice read but is this really any different than going to Hodgdon load data page and then going to the Hornady 10th and seeing two different starting and maximum load data numbers for the 95 gn Vmax and VArget or H4895 ? Then going to the range and finding the chrono numbers don't match either.

Aye, Jim, it's very much the same. I've long made a practice of discounting "outlier" data in load manuals - charges that differ significantly from consensus - if I wasn't able to understand pretty clearly what caused that variance. I suppose the difference with QuickLoad is the ability to get very granular and very specific. And to observe how things like case volume and bullet seating depth affect chamber pressure.
 
Very nice write-up!

The burn rate (Ba) values used by QuickLoad do not take into account cartridge shape/size, bullet weight, bore dimensions, Lot-to-Lot powder variation, primer brisance, etc. So there are quite a number of factors that can affect how close an initial velocity predicted for a given charge weight using the factory preset Ba will be to the actual measured velocity. In my hands the factory preset Ba is usually within 25 to 50 fps of the actual measured average value for a given charge weight. However, I had seen them be off by 75 to 100 fps on rare occasions. Like you, I find that concerning. Nonetheless, I always "calibrate" QuickLoad to a given setup by using the average velocity from a known charge weight (safely reduced load). I then input the ambient temperature and adjust the Ba until the predicted velocity exactly matches the measured average velocity for that charge weight. From that point on, the predictions are usually quite good with one major caveat. The farther away the "calibration" charge weight is from the final charge weight, the less accurate the predictions are likely to be. I believe this stems in a large part from the generally linear predictive outputs of QuickLoad. In the real world, pressure and velocity are not always linear except within a fairly narrow and defined charge weight range. Sometimes, I find myself having to repeat the "calibration" step with a slightly higher charge weight if the initial "calibration" charge weight I chose was too low and the velocity/pressure too far away from where I thought the load should end up. It can be annoying when that happens, but it's not that big of a deal.

In your specific example above, the real difference from what I have observed is the magnitude of the difference between the predicted and actual velocity/pressure values. I can't tell you exactly where in the manual it is located, but as I recall, the QL manual has some suggestions on what to do if you find yourself having to adjust the preset Ba value by more than a certain amount. It's been a long time since I looked at it and I don't remember the specific details because I've never actually had to put them to use. Nonetheless, it may be of interest to you and I'm sure you can find that section in the manual if you look for it.

You and I use QuickLoad in very much the same way, Ned. And you point out something very important... that QL's predictions are linear. In the real world, of course, we frequently observe where a load "goes quiet." And, in fact, we look for those, we hope for those... as those are the loads where we often find the best accuracy.

When I calibrate a powder in QL, I usually focus on lining up the upper, higher-pressure part of the ladder, letting the lower end fall where it may.
 
Never a mention of accuracy or lack thereof. I must be confused as to to ultimate goal.

Well, Jeff, the story was already getting kinda long...

The rest of the story is that that Model 70 was the rifle that led me to handloading. I came home one day with a small paper sack containing a Lee Loader set in .243 Win, a single 100-count sleeve of CCI 200 primers, and a brown can (they were actually made of metal back then) of IMR-4350.

Probably like everyone here, I was instantly smitten by the ability to craft my own ammo.

A couple weeks later, banging away at the dining room table, my young wife came out from putting our two toddlers down for the night and gave me "the look."

"Do you really have to make all that noise?"

I looked up at her with a little smile. "Well, honey, they do make this thing called a press."

And so down the rabbit hole I went. In time I moved on to loading lots of different calibers, in lots of different rifles and lots of different handguns. But handloading for that Model 70 taught me much. It was just a hunting rifle, of course. But, not being able to afford a target rifle, I competed with it in local silhouette matches. Between those matches, and simply the joy of building and shooting ammo with it, I put a lot of rounds down its barrel. After awhile, accuracy fell off. "Overbore" was a concept I was just learning about.

And, then, when a kid knocked it off the stand behind the line at a local match and broke the stock... I put it in the gun cabinet, where it remained untouched for 37 years.

A few weeks ago I took it outside and put six factory rounds through it. I was sufficiently intrigued with what I saw to wonder if, indeed, there might still be a little life left in the old girl.

I pulled the old Redfield Widefield 2-7x and replaced it with a Vortex PST Gen II 3-15x. My now much more "seasoned" eyes very much appreciate parallax adjustment.

I ordered a new stock for it. And I replaced the stock mounting screws with hex-head versions. And new bullets and brass, since apparently I discarded whatever old components I had, at some point.

I've got more sophisticated, more expensive, more accurate rifles. This is just a heartfelt little look-back-in-time project for me. But one that's proving to be more pleasurable than I ever expected.

IMG_1660.jpg

IMG_1659.jpg

IMG_1663.jpg

IMG_1664.jpg
 
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Well, Jeff, the story was already getting kinda long...

But handloading for that Model 70 taught me

I've got more sophisticated, more expensive, more accurate rifles. This is just a heartfelt little look-back-in-time project for me. But one that's proving to be more pleasurable than I ever expected.

I think that pretty much says it all,

It doesn’t always need to be the smallest groups, to be the most satisfying.
 
undersized bullets? I have on occasion got a lot of bullets that measured small and it KILLED my velocity. I had a gun load etc and it dropped 180 fps when i started the new lot.
 
While I have envied those of you who have ponied-up for quickload, I know it would get used once or twice on my computer and then seldom if ever again.
I prefer empirical results.
I think adjusting the burn rate fudge factor is best done *after* slugging your barrel or you could have some unpleasant surprises.
I'm glad your predictive numbers matched actual after monkeying with the fudge.
 
Well, Jeff, the story was already getting kinda long...

The rest of the story is that that Model 70 was the rifle that led me to handloading. I came home one day with a small paper sack containing a Lee Loader set in .243 Win, a single 100-count sleeve of CCI 200 primers, and a brown can (they were actually made of metal back then) of IMR-4350.

Probably like everyone here, I was instantly smitten by the ability to craft my own ammo.

A couple weeks later, banging away at the dining room table, my young wife came out from putting our two toddlers down for the night and gave me "the look."

"Do you really have to make all that noise?"

I looked up at her with a little smile. "Well, honey, they do make this thing called a press."

And so down the rabbit hole I went. In time I moved on to loading lots of different calibers, in lots of different rifles and lots of different handguns. But handloading for that Model 70 taught me much. It was just a hunting rifle, of course. But, not being able to afford a target rifle, I competed with it in local silhouette matches. Between those matches, and simply the joy of building and shooting ammo with it, I put a lot of rounds down its barrel. After awhile, accuracy fell off. "Overbore" was a concept I was just learning about.

And, then, when a kid knocked it off the stand behind the line at a local match and broke the stock... I put it in the gun cabinet, where it remained untouched for 37 years.

A few weeks ago I took it outside and put six factory rounds through it. I was sufficiently intrigued with what I saw to wonder if, indeed, there might still be a little life left in the old girl.

I pulled the old Redfield Widefield 2-7x and replaced it with a Vortex PST Gen II 3-15x. My now much more "seasoned" eyes very much appreciate parallax adjustment.

I ordered a new stock for it. And I replaced the stock mounting screws with hex-head versions. And new bullets and brass, since apparently I discarded whatever old components I had, at some point.

I've got more sophisticated, more expensive, more accurate rifles. This is just a heartfelt little look-back-in-time project for me. But one that's proving to be more pleasurable than I ever expected.

View attachment 1268237

View attachment 1268238

View attachment 1268239

View attachment 1268242
I certainly agree with the rabbit hole. I can't even see daylight anylonger. I am curious if you every revisited #119 and if it repeated, or not.
 
I certainly agree with the rabbit hole. I can't even see daylight anylonger. I am curious if you every revisited #119 and if it repeated, or not.

I haven't yet revisited #119, Jeff. But I will.

And, yeah, I kinda like this rabbit hole we all climbed down in so long ago!
 
I like your analysis of the data, but. . .
The load should
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

It's perfectly normal to find 100fps or more variation between barrels with the same load. This is especially true between factory and aftermarket. The variation in frictional loss, and the consequent variation in burn rate for early pressure, drives large variation in final v. I would start to raise my eyebrows at 200fps variation, but no less.

To state that a load should produce a velocity with 100fps of modeled velocity is to stretch should way to far.
 
undersized bullets? I have on occasion got a lot of bullets that measured small and it KILLED my velocity. I had a gun load etc and it dropped 180 fps when i started the new lot.

Twarn't the bullets. Not that I'd expect that from Lapua. But, yeah, they mic'd true.

There was negligible variation in bullet length, enough to account for 1-2 fps. But diameter was precisely correct.
 

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