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Hand loading a 16" AR-15

Frankr

I have no experience hand loading for a AR. I would consider myself a experienced expert when it comes to loading for bolt guns. So I have a cheep Bushmaster XM 15 16" Light weight barrel.
I have been loading the 73 gr ELD M with CFE 223 because loading manuals show the highest velocity with that powder. So it looked promising. One thing I read was do not load out of the book for a AR 15 or gas gun..So my book load showed 26.5 gr CFE 223 with a 75gr bullet was 2,900 FPS out of 20" barrel. so I loaded 25.0,25.5,26.0,26.5 catching my brass and looking at my cases . so 26.0 looked half decent this day so I loaded quite a few up at 26.0. it turned out accuracy was bad shooting other days and chrony testing showed that 26.0 was 2,500 FPS and my brass was real dirty and dented up..So I loaded 27.0 and 28.0 and groups got worse and brass looked worse. So I said I will load some Benchmark as it has always shot well in my slow twist 223's.So my load was 25.0gr behind a 55gr in a bolt gun so . I loaded 22.0 and 23.0 behind this 73gr and 23.0 was 2,550 FPS..wow that is slow..lol... I would say I could go over 25.0..imo...So I loaded RL 15 at 26.0 GR at it looked decent at 2,728 FPS cases are clean and not dented up and look good. So I'm now loaded at 26.5 grs at 2.260ish loaded up 10.. and I loaded 26.0 benchmark behind a 60gr V max to try have 9 of them. hope to shoot them tomorrow.
But is that all I can expect from a 16" AR 2,700 FPS and 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards..
From what I have seen this bullet/barrel combo gas system seems to take away from what I would show pressure in a bolt gun so to me in this instance I can load hotter than normal due to bullet/barrel combo,short barrel, ect ect.. it is how it seems to me..anyone with experience with loading these little guns.
 
I'm also interested others' experience loading for ARs. If you don't crimp, what kind of neck tension are you running? For my bolt rifles, two to two and half thousandths is what I usually run in bolt rifle loads, but I've heard you might want a little more for an AR load. What say you?
 
First off, There is a Sierra AR loadmap on the .223 cartridge guide. It uses a 20" barrel for velocities, but it will give you an idea about powders and weights.

The limiting factor with the AR is the pressure going into the gas system to operate the action. Hotter loads raise this pressure and punish the rifle and brass in the process. This is also true of slower burning powders which would normally be used in bolt guns. Again, the .223 guide is a good primer for starting with this cartridge.

I have had good results out of my 16" barrel with W748, H335, TAC, and VV133 and 135, and varget with heavier bullets.(69 SMK mostly)

It is recommended to take about .7 grain off a bolt gun load max to have a gas gun max
 
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For neck tension, I'm using an RCBS small base die with the regular expander botton. I chucked the button in a drill and polished it down .001 to give better grip on uncrimped bullets. It didn't seem to have any effect on accuracy, and I haven't had any pushbacks with my guns and loads.
 
FJIM said:
I have no experience hand loading for a AR. I would consider myself a experienced expert when it comes to loading for bolt guns. So I have a cheep Bushmaster XM 15 16" Light weight barrel.
I have been loading the 73 gr ELD M with CFE 223 because loading manuals show the highest velocity with that powder. So it looked promising. One thing I read was do not load out of the book for a AR 15 or gas gun..So my book load showed 26.5 gr CFE 223 with a 75gr bullet was 2,900 FPS out of 20" barrel. so I loaded 25.0,25.5,26.0,26.5 catching my brass and looking at my cases . so 26.0 looked half decent this day so I loaded quite a few up at 26.0. it turned out accuracy was bad shooting other days and chrony testing showed that 26.0 was 2,500 FPS and my brass was real dirty and dented up..So I loaded 27.0 and 28.0 and groups got worse and brass looked worse. So I said I will load some Benchmark as it has always shot well in my slow twist 223's.So my load was 25.0gr behind a 55gr in a bolt gun so . I loaded 22.0 and 23.0 behind this 73gr and 23.0 was 2,550 FPS..wow that is slow..lol... I would say I could go over 25.0..imo...So I loaded RL 15 at 26.0 GR at it looked decent at 2,728 FPS cases are clean and not dented up and look good. So I'm now loaded at 26.5 grs at 2.260ish loaded up 10.. and I loaded 26.0 benchmark behind a 60gr V max to try have 9 of them. hope to shoot them tomorrow.
But is that all I can expect from a 16" AR 2,700 FPS and 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards..
From what I have seen this bullet/barrel combo gas system seems to take away from what I would show pressure in a bolt gun so to me in this instance I can load hotter than normal due to bullet/barrel combo,short barrel, ect ect.. it is how it seems to me..anyone with experience with loading these little guns.
Click to expand...

Yep

I don't even waste my time reloading for my stock 16" AR15. Just buy bulk federal lake city 62 gr. My rifle likes it as good as my reloads. They tear up your brass anyway.

You can get about 3 shots out of one of those noodle barrel ARs before they heat up and go away. You can build one with a 20" hbar that will shoot pretty good but you will want a gun bearer to carry it.

Built a bunch of ARs for a few years. Best one i ever had was a 6mm AR.TURBO 40 IMPROVED by Robert Whitley. That was an honest quarter in gun. After a time i decided to leave the ARs to the military. Now i still have a couple for special purposes. So much easier to get a bolt gun to shoot.
 
I've loaded thousands of rounds in AR's but don't consider myself an expert at it. The one thing that I've seen is never ever go over published data on charge weights. Things start to get pounded pretty hard when you do that. There are a few powders that really shine in the AR's, Benchmark with 55 gr bullets is super accurate, AR Comp is a powder that I would use in heavy bullets. I run .003 of neck tension, no crimp, and bullets don't shift. Lightweight barrels can shoot VERY well and if you have a free floated stress relieved barrel, it doesn't heat & walk. If your barrel doesn't shoot 55gr BT's with 25 grs of Benchmark, I would get another barrel. Delta ring set ups aren't going to give stellar accuracy.
 
I have a 6.5 grendel with a lightweight JP 18" barrel that will shoot less than 1 MOA consistently. It is still pretty heavy compaired to a comparable bolt gun. Great hog gun for multiple shots though.

Don't even bother to reload.for that one either. Shoots the factory hornady SST so well there is.no need. I only use it hog hunting and don't want to bother with the brass anyway.
 
johnfred1965 said:
First off, There is a Sierra AR loadmap on the .223 cartridge guide. It uses a 20" barrel for velocities, but it will give you an idea about powders and weights.
Click to expand...

Here's the link to the Sierra AR load info - http://accurateshooter.net/Downloads/sierra223ar.pdf. And, FWIW, I like the 53gr Sierra MK (flat base) for a nice "short range" load out of my Stag 16" 1/9 twist. I use the Varget recipe, because that's what I have on hand. Surprising precision out of a plain jane AR carbine....

Mike
 
Richard Coody said:
I have a 6.5 grendel with a lightweight JP 18" barrel that will shoot less than 1 MOA consistently. It is still pretty heavy compaired to a comparable bolt gun. Great hog gun for multiple shots though.

Don't even bother to reload.for that one either. Shoots the factory hornady SST so well there is.no need. I only use it hog hunting and don't want to bother with the brass anyway.
Click to expand...
Richard, When you get done with your brass (6.5 Grendel) save it and I will buy it from you. Sorry OP about hijacking the thread. The .223 is not hard to load for at all. Use a ball powder and a powder drop and it will go a lot faster. Biggest pain in the rear is trimming to length. You can buy bullets in bulk and enjoy reloading. I don't think you save a lot of money reloading but I like it.
 
Lone Hunter said:
Richard, When you get done with your brass (6.5 Grendel) save it and I will buy it from you. Sorry OP about hijacking the thread. The .223 is not hard to load for at all. Use a ball powder and a powder drop and it will go a lot faster. Biggest pain in the rear is trimming to length. You can buy bullets in bulk and enjoy reloading. I don't think you save a lot of money reloading but I like it.
Click to expand...

I don't pick up brass when i am hunting. Got 2 or 3 hundred lapua grendel cases for reloading but with the factory SST shooting so well i have never used it. Thinking about getting a 30 major barrel for my bench gun. Grendel necked up to 30 cal. Then i might use it. Had a 6mm AR turbo 40 that was a necked down grendel but sold it.

As for trimming..223. I have a geraud try-way that makes trimming painless. Don't use it any more. Might be willing to part with it.
 
in my 16 inch carbine I load the 55 gr Hornady FMJBT and H322 for cheap fun shooting and the 65 Sierra Game King and Varget for more knock down energy and accuracy,,
I use the RCBS small base size die and do not crimp and it functions 100% ,never had any fail to anythings,,if a gang of meth heads tried to break in our house I would trust that rifle and the 65 gr Sierra
 
thanks mr.big
I have some bulk stuff in case of emergency. My reason for hand loading is I am going to do some G-hog and coyote hunting with it so I thought i'd try and work up a decent accurate load with good speed and try a bullet or two and see what worked. So what I am saying to you is 26.0 gr of RL15 cci BR4 behind that 73 gr ELD M bullet was 2,720 FPS form that 16" barrel. I caught all my brass and my brass looks clean and not dented up bad. heads look good ect. and the group was coming in say it was 1" and I felt 26.5 might just pull it under a inch at 100 yards. YOU SAY DO NOT do THAT ? ? I mean if it shoots well, cases look good and speed is 2,750 I don't see where it is going to hurt. IS that TOO much to expect from a 16" barrel. As it would seem to me I am not making too much pressure whether it is do to this bullet barrel combo or the short barrel making less pressure.. I also heard the 69 gr ers are great I may try some. I am not sure I want to go to the 77 if I can only push them at 2,400 FPS. what do you think or what do you know.
 
that seems pretty hot for an AR15,,I cant attach my magnetospeed to my AR`s and dont know the speeds but from how much the 65 SGK drops at 300 yards it is pretty slow but shoots very good groups and functions 100%,,I use 24.5 Varget with the 65s and 23.0 H322 with the 55s,,,
if I need to drive a 70-75 at max speeds I would grab one of my bolt rifles,,
 
Last year I built a cost no object 16" billet AR with a 1 in 7" twist Krieger barrel from compass lake. After over 1200 rounds of detailed testing, the very best combo at 100/200 yards was the 60 grain sierra flat back varmint with either H335 or N135. (Gunsmith corroborated similar findings, after the fact.) I saw no improvement with Lapua brass over new lake city. I used whidden full length, non bushing resizer with ZERO feed issues. I had a couple 5-shot groups under 1" @ 200 with the 55 SBK, but the 60 flat back would go under 0.8" for five shots (using FTR bipod and rear bag) as long as the wind cooperated. If you want to shoot further I had excellent results with the 69 scenars which can be had for an insanely good price per 1000 at Grafs. Based on the simple 2x4 and bathroom scale test, 0.003" neck tension was more than ample to clamp sufficiently.
 
Hi I load for my Sig ar15 223 20in bb m400 predator 1@8. I shoot 60gr v max or nosler 60gr nosler bt. On hogs or deer i use 65gr gameking and benchmark powder in my ar.
 
I'm with moorepower and outrider27.... An adjustable gas block is the way to go.. I turn the port off for load development, the slowly release until my bolt cycles reliably without touching back. Fine tune load after.. Keeping pressures as consistent as I can in an AR platform. Give ARcomp and some Federal GM205MAR's a try....
The adjustable gas block has worked especially well in my re-barreled R25 as well.
 
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