Hammer forged cut rifling combination?

[Hopkins]

I am curious if any members have any knowledge of a hybrid process of barrel production utilizing cold hammer forging on an undersized mandrel finished with cut rifling and honing? My question arises from FNH and Steyr police-sniper products that seem to have 1/2 MOA or better accuracy performance that I understand start with a hammer forged barrel. I recall a European member of the forum defending hammer forging as being capable of delivering competition grade barrels for F class and similar disciplines.

 

[Larryh128]

There was an European member who shared some insight about hammer forged barrels & then all the experts that know little about the process basically ran him off the forum.

 

[Hopkins]

I had a FNH employee in Columbia, S.C. tell me that the Police-sniper bolt action based on the Model 70 that has a accuracy guarantee is a result of barrel selection and custom shop bedding and fit and finish. I have my doubts its that simple.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

My souped up Ruger 10/22 shoots lights out.
This model has the Ruger hammer forged barrel. As far as I know, it is not cut rifled but, why couldn't it have been. It makes sense to me.

 

[BoydAllen]

AI find all of this fascination for hammer forged barrels to be interesting, given the fact that Ruger's, Remington's, and Winchester's ordinary barrels are made that way. As far as I am aware, cut rifling is way too slow and expensive for any production rifle. If you are aiming at large volume, and low cost per barrel, for production rifles, hammer forging is the way to go. That is its sole advantage. If you are saturated with the lore from tactical and/or black rifle sites, you may be under the false impression that the process imparts some sort of magic. It does not. On the other hand, with proper attention to quality control, they can be perfectly serviceable barrels, just understand that top quality cut barrels pretty much own the benchrest accuracy games, with a few button barrels thrown in.

 

[Hopkins]

I am not a proponent or fascinated but I'm guessing that a barrel hammer forged around a mandrel is probably going to have the bore at least end up in the center of the blank. With that as a starting point it seems like cutting the barrels rifling could give good results. I specifically mentioned F class and similar disciplines that might benefit, not bench rest.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

They are perfectly fine for their current uses. As to them venturing out any farther than hunting rifles i just dont see it.

 

[hoz53]

They are perfectly fine for their current uses. As to them venturing out any farther than hunting rifles i just dont see it.

The OP did not ask about the kind of hammer forged barrels we are familiar with. He asked about a barrel that is hammer forged undersized and then cut rifled.
1. Who makes such a barrel?
2. Would a barrel made this way be as inherently accurate as a normal cut rifled barrel?
3. What would be the advantage of making a barrel in this way? There must be some reason someone would make it this way if someone actually does. The blank has to be drilled anyway. I guess if it could be hammer forged close to finished bore dimensions the single point tool wouldn't have to make so many passes. Just my guess.

There was an article in I think precision shooting sometime ago about rugers hammer forging operation.

Anybody know about this. Thanks

 

[Hal]

Did Sako use hammer forged barrels when they came out with their factory 6 PPC's?

Hal

 

[BoydAllen]

Where did you get the idea that someone was doing a combined process? I read a lot, and I have never heard so much as a whisper about such a thing. Have you looked at any videos of the barrel hammer forging process?
https://www.google.com/search?q=you tube hammer forging barrels

 

[watercam]

It does not make sense. Trying to take the time to index a barrel that is partially hammer forged, then completed by cut rifling would take longer than simply cut rifling in the first place. And then there is the whole stress relief to undo the tweaks hammer forging creates in the first place. I had a Ruger Target rifle in .308 and it shot fairly well as far as a factory barrel goes. Had it cryo'd and it shot somewhat better yet never shot as well as a custom barrel on the same rifle. Not even close.

 

[JohnKielly]

You could maybe drag a broach thru if you had some sort of lead on it to align with the rifling.

As far as performance goes, back in the late 60s/early 70s when bench rest was really still in its infancy in Australia and 3 aggregates exceptional, one local guy shot a Steyr with heavy hammer forged barrel to good effect. The barrel was so pretty as the spiral hammer strokes were left on the outside of the barrel, highly polished & them blued.

 

[Concha]

 

[SBS]

I am not a proponent or fascinated but I'm guessing that a barrel hammer forged around a mandrel is probably going to have the bore at least end up in the center of the blank. With that as a starting point it seems like cutting the barrels rifling could give good results. I specifically mentioned F class and similar disciplines that might benefit, not bench rest.

Not to throw cold water on the idea, but if you are going to compete in F class, you had better have a barrel capable of BR accuracy -- given the F class scores and groups these days. And, the closest similar discipline is benchrest.

 

[hoz53]

Not to throw cold water on the idea, but if you are going to compete in F class, you had better have a barrel capable of BR accuracy -- given the F class scores and groups these days. And, the closest similar discipline is benchrest.

So I guess the OP never actually heard of a company that produces such hybrid barrels. It's just something he thought up and wondered if any company did it?

 

[Changeling]

What happens to the Steyr barrels that DON'T make it through their final inspections?

 

[Hopkins]

I am not aware of any barrel being produced using the process I am asking about. I do know both Steyr and FNH sell law enforcement/sniper rifles with accuracy guarantees of 1/2 MOA or better out to 300 meters. Those rifles are using hammer forged barrels. I question if that is all that those barrels are, or are they further modified?

 

[Hopkins]

FNH touts the durability/ life span of its hammer forged machine gun barrels and apparently the U.S. DOD concurs.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

They pass dod inspections. So does chrome lined barrels and the m1 carbine even passed. Neither is capable of the accuracy required to compete. Cooper touts their accuracy but they test em at 23yd or something.

 

[Hopkins]

I was a retail gun dealer then and Steyr had guaranteed accuracy for a 3 shot group 1cm @ 100m 30 years ago for all of its bolt guns. I know they stood behind it because we exercised the guarantee and used it to have some rifles replaced that failed it. The SSG's we sold at that time were much better than the other Steyr rifles.
Hammer forged barrels are being disqualified for inaccuracy because they don't post sub .100" 10 shot strings from bench competition. Damned few cut rifle barrels do either no matter how carefully crafted they are. I don't think I have ever seen 1.25" diameter 6mm hammer forged barrel. The fact that Ruger, Winchester and Remington are using hammer forging to mass produce mediocre barrels is irrelevant.