Ive got three months left in the Marine corps and Im looking into gunsmithing school but i have no clue on which one to go to. Any recommendations form any of you smiths out there? I would like to focus on rifles but i really dont know if i can that?
Gunsmithing school recommendations?
- Thread starter USMC50Gunner
- Start date
A retired Ranger nephew is attending the Colorado School of Trade in Lakewood Co, part of Denver. The school in Trinidad Colorado, Trinidad State College, has a great reputation.
Do you want to do general gunsmithing/general repairs or specialize is some other form of gunsmithing. There are high demands of both. But it is difficult to be really good at all aspects of gunsmithing. The gunsmithing schools that I am aware of teach a general knowledge of all aspects of gunsmithing but move pretty quickly through each phase of the training. The students then must follow their heart and desire to the area of their choosing. Trinidad is adding a year of hands on shop experience with their third year program. I would suggest one get a double major and take Business Administration along with thier Gunsmithing. Most gunsmith students need to find a good gunsmith to mentor with for a couple of years.
Nat Lambeth
Nat Lambeth
I went to Lassen College in Susanville CA. It takes 2 years to get a degree. I went for about a year and a half just to get my Certified Riflesmith certificate. It is totally jammed with students right now because of all the vets and a slow ecomomy. I refer to it as combat gunsmithing because of the overcrowding and limited equipment. When I went 5 years ago they were hurting for students and it was easier to get your projects done. The school operates on a one week per credit system. You can go to their website and see the classes that are offered. They don't spend a lot of time in the class room. You are giving projects to complete on Monday morning and a brief demonstration on how to get it done and spend the rest of the week in the shop. When you first start they are real big on you making your own tools that you will use later in the course(action wrenches,receiver mandrels, etc). I thoroughly enjoyed the time I spent there and have many lifetime friends from the school.
dksac2
Retired Gunsmith, Retired LEO
I went to Colorado School of Trades, lots of hands on, they have a shop that takes in guns to be repaired, many need a lot of work, so it's good as far as getting to work on a variety of firearms.
There was a fair amount of classroom time, very good, they went over many different guns, triggers and a lot of safety issues, these are very important to any new smith.
Any school is only going to make you just a beginning smith, one who is ready to work for a shop, to start your own shop right out of school is going to be rough, too much that you didn't run into and not enough machine experience, you might want to find a school that offers machine class first, then go to gunsmithing school, it will be a great help.
I worked 4 days a week for a smith who was going to retire in a year, he was a very good old smith with a huge backlog of work.
I offerd to work for free, which I did, he taught me a lot, got me doing everthing, even told me I was good enough that I didn't need to go to school, but I learned more while in school and loved it also. Going to school afterwards was the best move, and it was so much fun, I didn't want it to end. I finished almost 2 months earily and was made a student instructor, helping other students as well as the instructors, that was fun.
I told the head instrustor that I wanted the worst of the worst guns to work on, nothing easy. We had to work on a lot of firearms from the guns they took in for repair before working on our own projects, many students, especially the younger one's wanted the easiest guns so they could get to their own projects, they cheated themselves and I'll bet many never made it in the business.
Most instrustors will go out of their way to help you anyway they can if they see you really want to learn.
Gunsmithing is not an easy way to make a living, lots of paperwork and regulations to follow. You have to love firearms, because it's a labor of love.
Buy every book you can get, lots of good books on e bay that will save you money. The old smith had so many things no longer available, books from Win, Browning and others and Rem showing step by step how to work on every firearm they made, what problems to look for and fixing them, I copied thousands of pages from old material he had, it was a huge help when I opened my own shop. You don't have to know everything, just where to find the info and have the experience to make use of what you find in the books.
Get all info you can. Know what you can do and find a good smith to farm out work you can't do until you are able to do it, that way you can make a few bucks and keep customers.
Good luck, unless you are 100% dedicated, do something else and save a lot of money, the costs for equipment are staggering, find someone who knows equipment, you can get great USA made lathes and mills for great prices with accessories if you know what to look for. Get quality used equipment, but have someone who really knows what to look for so you get good machinery. It's the tooling for the machines and the tools that cost, every tool seems to be $30.00 to $100.00, many you can make yourself if you have the machine tools, I made a lot of my own and saved a lot of money, but many tools you can't or don't have the time to make, they must be bought.
Best of Luck, John
There was a fair amount of classroom time, very good, they went over many different guns, triggers and a lot of safety issues, these are very important to any new smith.
Any school is only going to make you just a beginning smith, one who is ready to work for a shop, to start your own shop right out of school is going to be rough, too much that you didn't run into and not enough machine experience, you might want to find a school that offers machine class first, then go to gunsmithing school, it will be a great help.
I worked 4 days a week for a smith who was going to retire in a year, he was a very good old smith with a huge backlog of work.
I offerd to work for free, which I did, he taught me a lot, got me doing everthing, even told me I was good enough that I didn't need to go to school, but I learned more while in school and loved it also. Going to school afterwards was the best move, and it was so much fun, I didn't want it to end. I finished almost 2 months earily and was made a student instructor, helping other students as well as the instructors, that was fun.
I told the head instrustor that I wanted the worst of the worst guns to work on, nothing easy. We had to work on a lot of firearms from the guns they took in for repair before working on our own projects, many students, especially the younger one's wanted the easiest guns so they could get to their own projects, they cheated themselves and I'll bet many never made it in the business.
Most instrustors will go out of their way to help you anyway they can if they see you really want to learn.
Gunsmithing is not an easy way to make a living, lots of paperwork and regulations to follow. You have to love firearms, because it's a labor of love.
Buy every book you can get, lots of good books on e bay that will save you money. The old smith had so many things no longer available, books from Win, Browning and others and Rem showing step by step how to work on every firearm they made, what problems to look for and fixing them, I copied thousands of pages from old material he had, it was a huge help when I opened my own shop. You don't have to know everything, just where to find the info and have the experience to make use of what you find in the books.
Get all info you can. Know what you can do and find a good smith to farm out work you can't do until you are able to do it, that way you can make a few bucks and keep customers.
Good luck, unless you are 100% dedicated, do something else and save a lot of money, the costs for equipment are staggering, find someone who knows equipment, you can get great USA made lathes and mills for great prices with accessories if you know what to look for. Get quality used equipment, but have someone who really knows what to look for so you get good machinery. It's the tooling for the machines and the tools that cost, every tool seems to be $30.00 to $100.00, many you can make yourself if you have the machine tools, I made a lot of my own and saved a lot of money, but many tools you can't or don't have the time to make, they must be bought.
Best of Luck, John
Give me a call if you would like some info on Montgomery Community College in Troy, NC. That is where I went and I would strongly recommend that program. They are expanding and doing extremely well. I would love to share some info if you are interested.
Mark Gordon
Short Action Customs, LLC
440 309 0085
Semper Fi
Mark Gordon
Short Action Customs, LLC
440 309 0085
Semper Fi
One thing I've never ever heard someone say or suggest is "Get a job in a machine shop and learn how to use a Lathe and a Bridgeport". Colleges are usually run by people who don't like shop work. Thus they become teachers. IMO. But one thing a college can't teach you is how to make something accurate and have to hold tolances and make parts to print. Learn how to do set-up's. Why spend a life time struggling and getting by. Learn where to get parts for your machine or how make them. What oil works on your lathe and so on... Learn why some of us buy Starrett tools or Mitutoyu mics, Interapids indicators or Brown and Sharpe. You can goto school later. Oh also... When you work in a shop you can find out how much this stuff costs. Build your toolbox and write that off on taxes. Start at the bottom and work your way up...
Well I'm really just talking to myself.
Mark
Well I'm really just talking to myself.
Mark
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
That gets mentioned alot, Mark. Just not in this thread until now. The days of OJT are all but past, unless you can find someone to take you under his wing. Younger guys I've worked with are generally "school trained" and no very little about tooling, except that it comes in a little plastic box and is either square, rectangular, triangular, or diamond shaped. The "old" guys, that can sharpen a drill bit on a pedistal grinder, walk up to an engine lathe and put it to work, set-up a horizontal mill and turn it over to an "operator" to feed parts, or go to the tool room and advance and sharpen a set of chasers for a self opening die head are 55+ years old. Much can be learned in a job shop, except how to time a S&W or stretch the yoke to eliminate end shake, make a stock, or re-solder a set of vintage double tubes. Most job shops are dominated by CNCs, those manual lathes and mills are in the tool room and not available for those CNC operators. You can't just 'tell' a manual machine how many SFM you want to work at, takes a different set of skills, like knowing how to figure that out yourself. Machining isn't all of it. I fit better than 35 custom barrels last year and spend much more time in my "finish area" than I do standing in front of my lathe. Machining might be what most concentrate on,,,,, no wonder stock makers are a"dying breed"! One of the 2 year gunsmithing programs is a good place to get your feet wet, better than learnin' it on a forum!MDSpencer said:
dksac2
Retired Gunsmith, Retired LEO
I mentioned finding a machine shop class first, but you are right, not all is machine work, but you had darn well be able to do precision machine work if you ever hope to build guns that shoot their best.
Gunsmithing school is something that is really needed also as is working for a good smith for a couple years afterwards also, there is just so much to learn, no way a school will cover it all.
If you have the basics down well, you can find information and know from your training how to fix or modify to make it right.
You have to know how triggers work, the importance of timing of the parts in a firearm and safety issues associated with every firearm as well as safety in general.
Getting started on your own is not easy, unless you have a good firm basic understanding about a lot of subjects, you are going to have a rough time. Books are so important, get everyone you can, even the simple and old one's will have a trick or two you will use.
You will be slow at first, you won't see any money to take home for at least a couple of years, too much equipment, parts and tooling to buy.
To make it on your own, you have to crank out a lot of firearms, and everyone has to be right, no shortcuts. No such thing as close enough.
If you survive several years on your own (you better have a wife as the breadwinner), you will start to make a profit, if you can, find a good nitch, general gunsmiths don't make much money, you want something repeatable, you can do fast, charge a decent amout for and keep busy with your nitch or get so darn good at wood working, checkering that you will be in demand, have a backlog and charge a good rate for your work.
Just because you are new don't charge discount prices, but also make sure your work is top notch.
I did general gunsmithing and started a web site, www.savagegunsmithing.com I accurized Savage CF rifles, it was a great nitch, I built up a good reputation and the money started coming in, I made tools to help do my job faster and with more precision.
I had to retire, when I did, I gave the business to a friend, a master gunsmith who was in the same town as myself, we had become good friends over the years, shared knowledge, parts and tools.
He has taken the business to a higher level than I had a chance to, now does CF and RF and does the most precise work I have ever seen, it has made him enough money to keep his family well taken care of, he's not rich, but everyone has what they need and they lack for none of the necessities of life.
He has the ability to work on any kind of firearm and frequenty has one's worth 1/2 million + in the shop, he's that good and well trusted.
Even with a good nitch, two sons who are smiths and work with him, he's far from well off, and that's with a 4 month backlog, without the boys, he'd be backed up many more months.
Point is, he has been smithing for 28 years, has a tremendous amout of tooling and equipment and he just makes a decent living after all that time, his knowledge is fantastic in all areas, not just gunsmithing.
There is only so much work a man can do and only so much he can charge, that's where the problem comes in.
Smithing is a labor of love, you do it to make a bare living at times, though a very few do very well if they have built up a bigger business. If you don't really love firearms for the beauty and mechanics of them, best to go find another job.
I think the best piece of advise I ever got from a good old smith was to save $80,000, burn it, go find a job that paid very well, had benifits, vacations and sick time and put a small shop in your home and do gunsmithing for yourself, find fixer uper's, restore and sell them. Have fun and do what you like, not what you have to do to keep food on the table.
If you can get the training paid under GI bill, afford to live while going to school, why not, then get a good job, an FFL and do a little part time work, enjoy yourself, learn to do something very,very well like woodwork, then do that when you retire from your high paying job to keep from going crazy when you retire.
I had some bad medical problems, I have a small shop now, small lathe, mill and tools, some other machine tools, I buy fixer uppers, restore them and usually fall in love with them and keep them instead of selling them like I promised the wife I would do. I can't work for hours at a time, have my good days and bad days, but I do something I enjoy, I pick the rifles I want to restore, no deadlines, I just have fun. I sold a good bit of my big equipment and a lot of tools when I retired, but kept enough to do most of what I need to do, should have kept the machine tooling, machines are cheap compared to outfitting yourself with quality tooling.
I can Blue, park and have the use of large tools at my friends shop, so I pretty much have it made. I can't do work on others firearms, but my projects keep me busy enough. I'm limited to what I can do somedays, so it works out perfect.
My Best, John
I'm thinking of building a 1/2 size rifle just for fun next, that would be fun.
Gunsmithing school is something that is really needed also as is working for a good smith for a couple years afterwards also, there is just so much to learn, no way a school will cover it all.
If you have the basics down well, you can find information and know from your training how to fix or modify to make it right.
You have to know how triggers work, the importance of timing of the parts in a firearm and safety issues associated with every firearm as well as safety in general.
Getting started on your own is not easy, unless you have a good firm basic understanding about a lot of subjects, you are going to have a rough time. Books are so important, get everyone you can, even the simple and old one's will have a trick or two you will use.
You will be slow at first, you won't see any money to take home for at least a couple of years, too much equipment, parts and tooling to buy.
To make it on your own, you have to crank out a lot of firearms, and everyone has to be right, no shortcuts. No such thing as close enough.
If you survive several years on your own (you better have a wife as the breadwinner), you will start to make a profit, if you can, find a good nitch, general gunsmiths don't make much money, you want something repeatable, you can do fast, charge a decent amout for and keep busy with your nitch or get so darn good at wood working, checkering that you will be in demand, have a backlog and charge a good rate for your work.
Just because you are new don't charge discount prices, but also make sure your work is top notch.
I did general gunsmithing and started a web site, www.savagegunsmithing.com I accurized Savage CF rifles, it was a great nitch, I built up a good reputation and the money started coming in, I made tools to help do my job faster and with more precision.
I had to retire, when I did, I gave the business to a friend, a master gunsmith who was in the same town as myself, we had become good friends over the years, shared knowledge, parts and tools.
He has taken the business to a higher level than I had a chance to, now does CF and RF and does the most precise work I have ever seen, it has made him enough money to keep his family well taken care of, he's not rich, but everyone has what they need and they lack for none of the necessities of life.
He has the ability to work on any kind of firearm and frequenty has one's worth 1/2 million + in the shop, he's that good and well trusted.
Even with a good nitch, two sons who are smiths and work with him, he's far from well off, and that's with a 4 month backlog, without the boys, he'd be backed up many more months.
Point is, he has been smithing for 28 years, has a tremendous amout of tooling and equipment and he just makes a decent living after all that time, his knowledge is fantastic in all areas, not just gunsmithing.
There is only so much work a man can do and only so much he can charge, that's where the problem comes in.
Smithing is a labor of love, you do it to make a bare living at times, though a very few do very well if they have built up a bigger business. If you don't really love firearms for the beauty and mechanics of them, best to go find another job.
I think the best piece of advise I ever got from a good old smith was to save $80,000, burn it, go find a job that paid very well, had benifits, vacations and sick time and put a small shop in your home and do gunsmithing for yourself, find fixer uper's, restore and sell them. Have fun and do what you like, not what you have to do to keep food on the table.
If you can get the training paid under GI bill, afford to live while going to school, why not, then get a good job, an FFL and do a little part time work, enjoy yourself, learn to do something very,very well like woodwork, then do that when you retire from your high paying job to keep from going crazy when you retire.
I had some bad medical problems, I have a small shop now, small lathe, mill and tools, some other machine tools, I buy fixer uppers, restore them and usually fall in love with them and keep them instead of selling them like I promised the wife I would do. I can't work for hours at a time, have my good days and bad days, but I do something I enjoy, I pick the rifles I want to restore, no deadlines, I just have fun. I sold a good bit of my big equipment and a lot of tools when I retired, but kept enough to do most of what I need to do, should have kept the machine tooling, machines are cheap compared to outfitting yourself with quality tooling.
I can Blue, park and have the use of large tools at my friends shop, so I pretty much have it made. I can't do work on others firearms, but my projects keep me busy enough. I'm limited to what I can do somedays, so it works out perfect.
My Best, John
I'm thinking of building a 1/2 size rifle just for fun next, that would be fun.
Try Robert Gradous' one week school. It will give you a chance on building a rifle from scratch. It is a great course and it will also give you the basics to see if you really want to get into this sort of work.
http://www.gradousrifles.com/class.php
http://www.gradousrifles.com/class.php
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
Any "one week school" will be just enough to make a guy real dangerous!andrews1958 said:
USMC50Gunner! A lot of good information here! Well said, everyone!
I am a Former Marine, went to Colorado School of Trades from 1970-1972. Graduated in 1972. I used the GI Bill and learned a bunch of really good skills related to my particular interests. I also made a bunch of big time mistakes and that cost me many real opportunity's! My Fault! I did not have a written plan.
Decide your path and make a written plan for your goals. Be able to amend those goals as you learn
IMHO, I would take machine shop courses at a local Community College(located in an area of the country that has a high industrial employment , for the best choices of instructors and curricula. Nothing like a retired machinist as your instructor!). Learn the tools and a feel for them. Second, I would learn welding skills, Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (TIG) for fine specialty work such as bolt handles, MIG for general shop fabrication (like work benches and fixtures), Oxy fuel for cutting, soldiering and brazing can be extremely helpful.
Then Get a mechanical engineering degree with a minor in marketing.
After all that, then Go to Gunsmithing School and learn all you can about every firearm type that is available! You can mix and match, if you dont sleep much or require employment ;D.
If I could counsel myself 42 years ago, with what I know now? This is what I would say to myself!
Machining and fabrication, Joining materials(welding), engineering and design, materials science(including metallurgy and non metallic materials). The basics of all modern industry.
I can say this as I have worked with engineers, taken classes and worked multiple trades over 42 years.
That 2700 Hours of Gunsmithing school opened doors for me. However, it was not what I had hoped to accomplish
Above all, know yourself. Plan for your career, long term! If you have an impressive resume, there will be opportunities! Who knows, you may be the next Ronnie Barrett or Brian Litz!
Semper Fi,
Greg
I am a Former Marine, went to Colorado School of Trades from 1970-1972. Graduated in 1972. I used the GI Bill and learned a bunch of really good skills related to my particular interests. I also made a bunch of big time mistakes and that cost me many real opportunity's! My Fault! I did not have a written plan.
Decide your path and make a written plan for your goals. Be able to amend those goals as you learn
IMHO, I would take machine shop courses at a local Community College(located in an area of the country that has a high industrial employment , for the best choices of instructors and curricula. Nothing like a retired machinist as your instructor!). Learn the tools and a feel for them. Second, I would learn welding skills, Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (TIG) for fine specialty work such as bolt handles, MIG for general shop fabrication (like work benches and fixtures), Oxy fuel for cutting, soldiering and brazing can be extremely helpful.
Then Get a mechanical engineering degree with a minor in marketing.
After all that, then Go to Gunsmithing School and learn all you can about every firearm type that is available! You can mix and match, if you dont sleep much or require employment ;D.
If I could counsel myself 42 years ago, with what I know now? This is what I would say to myself!
Machining and fabrication, Joining materials(welding), engineering and design, materials science(including metallurgy and non metallic materials). The basics of all modern industry.
I can say this as I have worked with engineers, taken classes and worked multiple trades over 42 years.
That 2700 Hours of Gunsmithing school opened doors for me. However, it was not what I had hoped to accomplish
Above all, know yourself. Plan for your career, long term! If you have an impressive resume, there will be opportunities! Who knows, you may be the next Ronnie Barrett or Brian Litz
!Semper Fi,
Greg
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