Gunsmith comfort zone?

[Tommie]

My last rifle build used a Remington 788 action. For the intended purpose (as well as my affection for this action) the 788 filled the bill. Much to my surprise, finding a willing gunsmith turned into a chore. "I don't work on those" was the answer. Besides a standard barrel installation and chambering job, I only asked for a very basic truing job: true action face, true threads and lap the lugs. Nothing approaching esoteric and I made it clear I had zero expectations of NBRSA level accuracy. I got sick of hearing "Why don't you want to use a 700 action?"

What gives?

 

[jonbearman]

Did you call gre-tan in Colorado.He should still be willing to do it for you or Holland gunsmithing.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

The 788 has a rear lug locking system doesn't it? Like 9 lugs total?

Maybe that's why you are seeing the reluctance - I would bet most smiths already have jigs, mandrels, etc... for truing a 700. Probably not a 788 and maybe they just don't have the time or inclination to take it on.

Seems like Jon had a few good ideas for you though.

 

[Grimstod]

Truing a bolt with lugs in the back end sounds like nightmare. And nine of them to boot.

 

[X-RingCustomGunsmithing]

I believe the raceways of that particular receiver is a plastic insert if im not mistaken so that is where some of the problem comes from. Plus the bolt nose would be another issue as well if its the multiple locking lugs and 60 deg bolt throw designed two rows of 3 lugs.

 

[eww1350]

Well, not many gunsmiths are "machinists"..and setting up to true an action is basic machining process..truing the action face and chasing the threads is not difficult...I don't think lapping the locking lugs on a rear lug (multi-lug) action is going to buy you anything at all in accuracy...drop that request...
Boy I wish I could trade all these messy time consuming bedding jobs for action truing work..what a joy that would be, and much more profit per hours of time spent...


Eddie in Texas

 

[Erik Cortina]

Why don't you want to use a 700 action?




Could not resist! ;D

 

[Erik Cortina]

Truing a bolt with lugs in the back end sounds like nightmare. And nine of them to boot.

I think it would be easier as you could easily chuck up the bolt because the handle would not be on the way or the chuck jaws.

One lug or nine makes no difference because the cutting tool would cut all of them at the same time as the bolt spins around.

 

[Tommie]

Well, not many gunsmiths are "machinists"

I found that out. It's kinda surprising so few are even familiar with the action. Anyway, the project was completed a few years ago. I was hoping some gunsmiths who had experience with the 788 action could explain the situation but I'm sure it's mostly a problem of working with the unknown.

No biggie.

 

[Minesweeper3433]

It is also a taught stereotype. One of the head instructors at the school I am going to right now likes to shit talk the 788 and I honestly find it kind of classless. I have a friend in FL that loves his 788 and wins competitions left and right with his. His is a single shot whether it started that way or he made it I do not know but it is now and he is very very accurate with it. However I will say this gunsmith makes a habit out of doing things that challenge him. He rebuilt a remington euthanasia rifle back into a 22lr 50/50 bench gun and does very well at the local shoots at gateway in jacksonville with it when he can shoot.

 

[Tommie]

It is also a taught stereotype. One of the head instructors at the school I am going to right now likes to shit talk the 788 and I honestly find it kind of classless. I have a friend in FL that loves his 788 and wins competitions left and right with his. His is a single shot whether it started that way or he made it I do not know but it is now and he is very very accurate with it. However I will say this gunsmith makes a habit out of doing things that challenge him. He rebuilt a remington euthanasia rifle back into a 22lr 50/50 bench gun and does very well at the local shoots at gateway in jacksonville with it when he can shoot.

That "instructor" is pretty typical. As the old saying goes: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Most accuracy smiths don't want to put their name on something that they don't think will be up their accuracy standards.

 

[colliers_customs]

What it boils down to is that most "Gunsmiths" are not gunsmiths. Most are armorer's more less they just want to swap parts and do bolt together builds.

 

[kendog]

I built a 788 up a while back. Chambered in 6 X 45 with a Krieger light palma barrel. Shoots 1/2 minute all day long. The tenon is quite different compared to a 700, but no big problems. Used factory barrel bracket, and checked ring and bolt face for square and runout, but they were both good so left them alone. Didn't bother with lug squaring/lapping either. Two lugs are easy, nine lugs is just asking for trouble.
788's have a good reputation for accuracy, and had the fastest lock time of any production rifle.
I would do another without hesitation. If I had a steady flow of them I would square the ring and make tooling to square the bolt face with Manson/PTG type bolt face burrs.

 

[boltman223]

Truing a bolt with lugs in the back end sounds like nightmare. And nine of them to boot.

I think it would be easier as you could easily chuck up the bolt because the handle would not be on the way or the chuck jaws.

One lug or nine makes no difference because the cutting tool would cut all of them at the same time as the bolt spins around.

Erik, cut all nine lugs at once?

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Truing a bolt with lugs in the back end sounds like nightmare. And nine of them to boot.

I think it would be easier as you could easily chuck up the bolt because the handle would not be on the way or the chuck jaws.

One lug or nine makes no difference because the cutting tool would cut all of them at the same time as the bolt spins around.

Erik, cut all nine lugs at once?

I think maybe he meant each row, since I think there are three rows of three lugs each. I don't think that would be difficult, but I think trying to true the abutments could be tricky. Of course, I say all this having never actually owned one, so I could be talking out the wrong end.

 

[kendog]

I wish I had one on hand to do some checking. I would hi-spot the lugs and seat them in the receiver one time. If I saw a total of 75% or more contact of all the available area, I would leave it alone.
Maybe some light lapping.
Why fix what ain't broken??

 

[Erik Cortina]

Truing a bolt with lugs in the back end sounds like nightmare. And nine of them to boot.

I think it would be easier as you could easily chuck up the bolt because the handle would not be on the way or the chuck jaws.

One lug or nine makes no difference because the cutting tool would cut all of them at the same time as the bolt spins around.

Erik, cut all nine lugs at once?

Not at once, but once set up it's the same as doing a two lug. Jay knew what I meant.

Of course, you would have to keep them "timed" with the lugs or a row of lugs will have more contact than the rest.
Probably easier just to lightly lap them with lapping compound and call it a day.

 

[Tommie]

I have to chuckle a little while reading some posts about the 788 design. One might think this action was designed by communist mutants from outer space. Folks who are familiar with this action will note several incorrect (almost bizarre) assumptions about the 788 in this thread. I state this not to flame anyone but rather to illustrate the misconceptions about a rifle action which was common as dirt during the 60's, 70's and 80's.

People "in the know" understand and recall that the ugly Remington 788 regularly shot rings around the 700 as well as the other mass-produced rifles of that era. Ever notice how many people regret selling heir old 788 and wax about the unexpected accuracy the cheap rifle would easily produce?

As far as my original post goes, my "accurizing" requests to gunsmiths were extremely basic. Any four jaw lathe can accomplish the action face and thread truing. Lapping the lugs only involves a little lapping compound and repetitive bolt closing. Been there, done that. Because I have performed all of the above machining processes with zero formal training I'd assumed my request was not outside the ordinary. Lesson learned.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I have to chuckle a little while reading some posts about the 788 design. One might think this action was designed by communist mutants from outer space. Folks who are familiar with this action will note several incorrect (almost bizarre) assumptions about the 788 in this thread. I state this not to flame anyone but rather to illustrate the misconceptions about a rifle action which was common as dirt during the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Feel free to correct us. If I was making assumptions and they are wrong, I'd appreciate a heads up. I think anyone would. I'm not here for comic relief, much as it might seem so...

People "in the know" understand and recall that the ugly Remington 788 regularly shot rings around the 700 as well as the other mass-produced rifles of that era. Ever notice how many people regret selling heir old 788 and wax about the unexpected accuracy the cheap rifle would easily produce?

Guess all the "in the know" people hang out somewhere else. Who knew? This is the first I've seen someone wax poetic about the 788.

As far as my original post goes, my "accurizing" requests to gunsmiths were extremely basic. Any four jaw lathe can accomplish the action face and thread truing. Lapping the lugs only involves a little lapping compound and repetitive bolt closing. Been there, done that. Because I have performed all of the above machining processes with zero formal training I'd assumed my request was not outside the ordinary. Lesson learned.

Why are you asking about gunsmiths doing work on your 788 again? If I know how to do something, have the skills to do it, and have done it before, I'm not usually looking for someone else to do it for me and then complaining when they don't want to do it.