Gun Safe Mechanical Lock Conversion

[Enosiophobia]

A couple months ago I decided to switch to a mechanical lock in lieu of the original electronic lock. Felt that the mechanical was a better choice.

Bought a Saergent Greenleaf model # 6730-100. I watched the install video on YouTube (it was an older video) prior to purchasing the lock. I also read the included instructions. The install portion was too good to be true. It was as if that model was made specifically to fit my safe. Every screw hole was in the perfect location. That's where the easy part ended.

I've had no luck being able to "set" my combination. The included directions don't work as they are written. The video version made more sense, but still not successful.

Called out a locksmith when I could go no further. I expected a 10-15 minute visit. 2 hours later and he had no luck. I've been at a standstill for weeks since.

Has anyone had any experience with this model? Any advice? Any recommendations on an alternative? I've purchased two of these locks, in the event the first one was somehow defective, with no change. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[c3d4b2]

At the risk of covering your previous efforts......

This video covers most of my trials and tribulations.

Hope it is helpful

 

[chop house]

Has anyone had any experience with this model? Any advice?

pretty much the industry standard mech lock and footprint. absolutely a bazillion of them in use. it is hard for me to understand why a locksmith had issues, unless he is not a safe man (and even then... ). in a previous life i was a registered safe technician and still dabble.

did it come with a dial ring? if not, does the dial ring you installed have a change index (eight numbers left of the opening index)? do you have the change key? do you understand the dialing sequence of a three wheel movable fly lock? did you get the handing set properly for your specific installation?

 

[Enosiophobia]

Both came complete and with new dial wheel and index ring with notch and crows foot. I followed the video (multiple times) with the proper rotations. My combo numbers do not fall into the "problem zone".

The orientation of the lock is vertical, which was nice because it's exactly what they installed in the video.

I just found another video explaining the operation of the wheels. I hope to find some time this weekend to get into it further.

 

[Enosiophobia]

At the risk of covering your previous efforts......

This video covers most of my trials and tribulations.

Hope it is helpful

This is the exact video I watched.

 

[J.D.Erwin]

Don’t know nothing don’t know nothing but I feel your pain. Good luck. Hope you find a way out.

 

[6.5 forever]

WOW
I have been seriously thinking about changing to a combination lock. This scares me.

 

[chop house]

Both came complete and with new dial wheel and index ring with notch and crows foot. I followed the video (multiple times) with the proper rotations. My combo numbers do not fall into the "problem zone".

The orientation of the lock is vertical, which was nice because it's exactly what they installed in the video.

I just found another video explaining the operation of the wheels. I hope to find some time this weekend to get into it further.

well you covered the bases. what i would do is remove the back cover and watch the gates align (or not align) under the fence. of course the drive cam will not be able to withdraw the bolt with the internal relocker released, freezing the bolt and dial. when the lever drops, just reverse the dial (go counter clockwise) four times to 'clear' the lock. if it is still installed, use a mirror to see the wheel operation, unless you have pretty long arms.

side note: movable flys allows a number to be dialed from either direction without having to compensate for drive pin stackup. gate width on these locks should be at least 1 number... meaning +/- 1/2 number should work. smaller number here is better, but it means you must be more precise when dialing.

from there you could decode the current combo. wheel 1 is toward the front of the safe, furthest from drive cam. when a working combo is entered the change key holes will all align, but of course they will be offset from the hole in the back cover.

years ago i would not put this in an open forum, but all the info has long been put out there. i am not responsible for anyone that likes to experiment, and ends up with a lockout.

 

[Enosiophobia]

well you covered the bases. what i would do is remove the back cover and watch the gates align (or not align) under the fence. of course the drive cam will not be able to withdraw the bolt with the internal relocker released, freezing the bolt and dial. when the lever drops, just reverse the dial (go counter clockwise) four times to 'clear' the lock. if it is still installed, use a mirror to see the wheel operation, unless you have pretty long arms.

side note: movable flys allows a number to be dialed from either direction without having to compensate for drive pin stackup. gate width on these locks should be at least 1 number... meaning +/- 1/2 number should work. smaller number here is better, but it means you must be more precise when dialing.

from there you could decode the current combo. wheel 1 is toward the front of the safe, furthest from drive cam. when a working combo is entered the change key holes will all align, but of course they will be offset from the hole in the back cover.

years ago i would not put this in an open forum, but all the info has long been put out there. i am not responsible for anyone that likes to experiment, and ends up with a lockout.

Thanks for this. So I had some progress before I read this post. I've been able to create functionality 4-5 times.....but not consistently. Can you expand on the process / procedure for the operation with regard to the dial? I feel like I'm not using the same number of required rotations and can't seem to keep track of what I did when it worked? I believe there's a number of rotations required from number one to number two to the final number.

 

[6.5 forever]

It might help to write it down in a log sheet. At my age I have to write everything down lol

 

[LHSmith]

Thanks for this thread. Now I know to just keep the electronic lock. I can't read a vernier caliper anymore, so reading the dial graduations won't be much easier. I can still see the electronic lock numbers just fine. Therefore I convinced myself- if it ain't broke---don't fix it.

 

[Enosiophobia]

Alright. I think I figured this thing out. After dialing the combination, and peeking inside the back of the lock, one of the tumblers (discs) was just slightly out of alignment causing the lever to hang up and prevent the hook from slipping inward toward the center to allow the latch to work and retract the bolt. They mention this might be an issue in the video.

Once I was able to align the gates repeatedly, I changed the combination back to the one I originally wanted. I paid special attention to hitting the numbers EXACTLY as they needed to stop on the set mark. I'm not sure how, but the orientation of the catch disc (that the hook engages) was off 90 degrees. I tried to re-orient it but it wasn't working and I didn't want to go back to that portion. With the success I finally achieved I didn't want to tempt fate. This basically results in what I'll call a "4 number" combination as I have to rotate the dial an additional 270 degrees back to the right to line up with the notch in the disc and activate the hook. Anyone expecting to hear a "click" when the latch enters the gate on the last number will hear nothing and would not expect to have to rotate the dial so far back to the right to open. I guess I like to think of it as a "special" feature.

The rotation is as follows. 4 times left and stop on the 1st number. Go right past the 2nd number twice until it comes up the 3rd rotation on your 2nd number. Go back left one time past the last number and stop on your last number.

This was not as easy as I thought it would be. In the end, I am still happy with the decision. Scenario one, it's EMP proof. Scenario two, if the electronics somehow fails, you're locked out. I did gain a greater understanding of how mechanical locks operate and I like to learn. The locksmith wasn't able to figure this out.

 

[chop house]

I'm not sure how, but the orientation of the catch disc (that the hook engages) was off 90 degrees. I tried to re-orient it but it wasn't working and I didn't want to go back to that portion.

lock handing is not correct for the installation. think of the dial being rotated 90 degrees. when you attempted to correct the handing you in effect offset your combination by 25 numbers. you should be happy... i don't know how imprecise your setting was but at least the lock has a small gate width. remember, small is mo' better

 

[Enosiophobia]

lock handing is not correct for the installation. think of the dial being rotated 90 degrees. when you attempted to correct the handing you in effect offset your combination by 25 numbers. you should be happy... i don't know how imprecise your setting was but at least the lock has a small gate width. remember, small is mo' better

Oh for sure. I get it. I just don't have the energy to screw with it anymore.

I also had to double bend the re-lock bar as the new lock body was just slightly thicker than the original.

 

[DRK]

Alright. I think I figured this thing out. After dialing the combination, and peeking inside the back of the lock, one of the tumblers (discs) was just slightly out of alignment causing the lever to hang up and prevent the hook from slipping inward toward the center to allow the latch to work and retract the bolt. They mention this might be an issue in the video.

Once I was able to align the gates repeatedly, I changed the combination back to the one I originally wanted. I paid special attention to hitting the numbers EXACTLY as they needed to stop on the set mark. I'm not sure how, but the orientation of the catch disc (that the hook engages) was off 90 degrees. I tried to re-orient it but it wasn't working and I didn't want to go back to that portion. With the success I finally achieved I didn't want to tempt fate. This basically results in what I'll call a "4 number" combination as I have to rotate the dial an additional 270 degrees back to the right to line up with the notch in the disc and activate the hook. Anyone expecting to hear a "click" when the latch enters the gate on the last number will hear nothing and would not expect to have to rotate the dial so far back to the right to open. I guess I like to think of it as a "special" feature.

The rotation is as follows. 4 times left and stop on the 1st number. Go right past the 2nd number twice until it comes up the 3rd rotation on your 2nd number. Go back left one time past the last number and stop on your last number.

This was not as easy as I thought it would be. In the end, I am still happy with the decision. Scenario one, it's EMP proof. Scenario two, if the electronics somehow fails, you're locked out. I did gain a greater understanding of how mechanical locks operate and I like to learn. The locksmith wasn't able to figure this out.

I have bank safes with LaGard Group 1 locks, they operate this way, i.e., the last number stop, then rotate back until the gate falls and retracts. Have had no problems with them and that is my understanding of how they are supposed to operate.

I wore one out and had to change it about 18 months ago. It was a fairly simple R&R, bolt together, change combo from sample to a different one, boom.

I like mechanical locks as anything electronic will eventually die for a host of reasons. The government still has weapons lockers with Group 1 mechanical locks just for this reason even though they have moved onto the X07/X09 for classified documents. Just remember, the tumblers on mechanical locks will eventually wear out too.

 

[Intell]

I like the SG EMP proof locks. They have an electronic key pad on top, then a back up dial lock in the center.
Best of both worlds.

 

[centershot]

So there is a purpose for the key that comes with the lock other than locking the dial?