GBA 600Yd. Nationals October 30-31
- Thread starter mikegaiz
- Start date
Sorry my blunder reckon l wanted to see them too bad
Sorry Vance seems they keep score like they run a match.
Jvance513
Gold $$ Contributor
You’ll have that on these big jobs lol
bushwacker7235
Gold $$ Contributor
I would like to hear from our GBA leadership on what happened and why either by email or letter. Integrity in our matches especially National competitions is critical to the health of our organization.
With prices of gasoline, motels, and meals being what they are it makes us pick and choose which matches we attend. It appears that Travis probably won and just got screwed.
He just didn’t know it until 2 or 3 months later.
With prices of gasoline, motels, and meals being what they are it makes us pick and choose which matches we attend. It appears that Travis probably won and just got screwed.
He just didn’t know it until 2 or 3 months later.
To date, six friends have called me and all said that "somebody on accurateshooter says you did not win the match". I will tell all of you the same thing that I told these 6 friends, and that is...... the man might be right, and he may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has all the information needed to know for sure.
I say that no one has all the information to be sure because of the way that match was scored and the way these "results" are posted. I am not here to argue my case because at this point I think that anyone that shot these Nationals lost. We all lost because these posted scores will always be questioned and never trusted. If you were there, you know exactly what I am talking about. At no point were interim results posted after relays, and at no point were any cumulative results posted after the first day. No one knew what was going on, and looking at hung targets only made it worse. I have two targets that had the group size scribbled out and changed two times, and I am sure that many other shooters had the same experience. Speaking just for myself, I have one target that was measured at 3.799 inches and was obviously wrong. I questioned it, and after someone qualified measured it, the group size was revised correctly to 2.175 inches. I have errors made on the math total for total score after 6 targets, and I know that many other shooters experienced the same frustration.
Regarding the RKS post about LG score results......the problem is that these score results are shown as a gross two-digit averages. Averages are NEVER to be used because only the exact cumulative score total after 6 targets matters. To use myself as an example....my average is shown as 47. In one case, 47.0 x 6 = 282, however, in another case 47.9 x 6 = 287. In both examples, the gross two-digit average is 47, but you can see the big difference when you total the actual scores for 6 relays. In my case, my LG average is shown as 47, but my real combined score is 284.
To use Travis Massie as an example.....I need to say that I do not know Travis and have zero information about what his actual LV totals might be. Anyway, his two-digit average score of 46 can really mean 46.0 x 6 = 276 and everything in between up to 46.9 x 6=281. Again, averages are NEVER used because your REAL combined 6 target score can vary 5 points. Travis may have totaled 281, and RKS would be right that Travis should have finished seventh. However, if Travis finished closer to 276, then many other shooters with 46's may have TOTALED higher than him and received a better score placement. I do not know, and you do not know, and the GBA probably doesn't know
I did not want to come on here. Anyone that knows me understands that I never want to win under any doubt or protest, and I never want to criticize a match. I run two different matches, and know how hard it can be. Travis Massie may have won, and he may have not won. Based on all the scoring and group size errors experienced by many shooters, there may be a totally different shooter that won! As I said earlier I think that anyone that shot those Nationals lost, and that includes me.
If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, send me a PM. I am not going to say anything more publicly than I have.
Jack Balon
I say that no one has all the information to be sure because of the way that match was scored and the way these "results" are posted. I am not here to argue my case because at this point I think that anyone that shot these Nationals lost. We all lost because these posted scores will always be questioned and never trusted. If you were there, you know exactly what I am talking about. At no point were interim results posted after relays, and at no point were any cumulative results posted after the first day. No one knew what was going on, and looking at hung targets only made it worse. I have two targets that had the group size scribbled out and changed two times, and I am sure that many other shooters had the same experience. Speaking just for myself, I have one target that was measured at 3.799 inches and was obviously wrong. I questioned it, and after someone qualified measured it, the group size was revised correctly to 2.175 inches. I have errors made on the math total for total score after 6 targets, and I know that many other shooters experienced the same frustration.
Regarding the RKS post about LG score results......the problem is that these score results are shown as a gross two-digit averages. Averages are NEVER to be used because only the exact cumulative score total after 6 targets matters. To use myself as an example....my average is shown as 47. In one case, 47.0 x 6 = 282, however, in another case 47.9 x 6 = 287. In both examples, the gross two-digit average is 47, but you can see the big difference when you total the actual scores for 6 relays. In my case, my LG average is shown as 47, but my real combined score is 284.
To use Travis Massie as an example.....I need to say that I do not know Travis and have zero information about what his actual LV totals might be. Anyway, his two-digit average score of 46 can really mean 46.0 x 6 = 276 and everything in between up to 46.9 x 6=281. Again, averages are NEVER used because your REAL combined 6 target score can vary 5 points. Travis may have totaled 281, and RKS would be right that Travis should have finished seventh. However, if Travis finished closer to 276, then many other shooters with 46's may have TOTALED higher than him and received a better score placement. I do not know, and you do not know, and the GBA probably doesn't know
I did not want to come on here. Anyone that knows me understands that I never want to win under any doubt or protest, and I never want to criticize a match. I run two different matches, and know how hard it can be. Travis Massie may have won, and he may have not won. Based on all the scoring and group size errors experienced by many shooters, there may be a totally different shooter that won! As I said earlier I think that anyone that shot those Nationals lost, and that includes me.
If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, send me a PM. I am not going to say anything more publicly than I have.
Jack Balon
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I brought a mistake to Jeff Greens attention after the awards were handed out and he promptly corrected it. Everybody was told to double check their targets and bring up any errors and where given a card to keep track of their scores and agg them. If Jeff Green didn't know of a problem how could he fix it.
Va222rem
Gold $$ Contributor
The problem wasn’t with individual targets. The problem was with overall results in which results were never posted at the match to be able to question.
That was my problem I kept track of my scores and groups aged them and told Jeff that I was pretty sure I won Factory, he got with the Match director rechecked groups and re agged them and awarded me 1st place. Cavalier had some major problems running their first national and their computer program had issues I guarantee it won't happen next year.
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Well put some shooters didn't even have their scores agged but someone else's because of the computer input or program problems.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
I'm sorry to hear this guys. I hope it's just a learning experience. And everything progresses. Running matches is a lot of work and no one wants to make a mistake.
I had a problem at the Nationals with case head separation. Ran the brass too hard for too long. So many people helped Me solve the problem I can’t name them all. The easy thing would have been just DQ Me. But the problem was solved, and I was able to continue shooting. No one complained about the delay. Sadly, I later DQ’ed myself when I closed the bolt too hard. The “SPIRIT” of BR shooting was there in abundance. I cannot run or score a match, so I will never complain about someone who does their best to do so. I am glad to have had the opportunity to shoot and very much appreciate the efforts of all who made it possible. Thank You!!
My Opinion…Jim Hoffman
My Opinion…Jim Hoffman
It will never cease to amaze me how so many people criticize others for a mistake or error and not offer to be part of the solution. They would prefer to sit behind their keyboard eat a snickers bar and complain about a match that they did not attend or support. Most match directors that put these matches on are volunteering their time and most often personal funds to hold the match to promote a sport that enjoy. Threads like this hurt our sport and make individuals that want to promote the shooting sports stop doing it.
I am the match director for the 600-yard GBA matches at Cavalier and help/Volunteer at two other matches in my state. Reading all the post on here is making me reconsider where I spend my time and energy. Remember this is a hobby and not a job. We do not get paid to do it!!!!!!
Remember to get out and support the sport you enjoy by volunteering or better yet put on a match and we can sit back and criticize the way you run a match.
PS. My screen name is my real name and if anyone would like to talk about more just send a PM and I will give you my phone number.
I am the match director for the 600-yard GBA matches at Cavalier and help/Volunteer at two other matches in my state. Reading all the post on here is making me reconsider where I spend my time and energy. Remember this is a hobby and not a job. We do not get paid to do it!!!!!!
Remember to get out and support the sport you enjoy by volunteering or better yet put on a match and we can sit back and criticize the way you run a match.
PS. My screen name is my real name and if anyone would like to talk about more just send a PM and I will give you my phone number.
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