Future of F-Class in Namibia

[dsbw]

Here's a question for those with foresight and experience in the F-Class discipline.
The Background
In Namibia F-Class is a young & upcoming shooting discipline, which can be grown quite successfully provided that advise and decision making in terms of equipment is based on sound reasoning. Currently we are about ten people actively taking part, with lots of interested outsiders waiting to see where we are going with this. Our reality is the following: Limited choices of propellant,only SA based available at reasonable prices), limited options in terms of re-barreling when worn out,only international barrels an option, with huge effort re import/export permits etc, as well as unfavorable exchange rate), access to quality gun smiths 1500 km away in Cape Town, with added frustration that we have to cross the border every time work needs to be done.

In spite of all this we have real committed people in our sport, who will go to great lengths to sustain and grow it. In fact, we are going to take part in the US nationals in Sept this year, at a cost of circa U$7000-00 per individual, all personally financed, no sponsors. That's the background, here's the question:

If we want to be competitive for the next three years, and are prepared to invest in rifles now,it needs to be 7mm, due to high rate of wear on 6,5 caliber), which 7mm rifle will allow us to stay competitive for say the next three years at least? Bear in mind that we will probably have to move to the 175/180 gr bullet, currently we shoot 168gr, some with straight .284 Winchester, others with 7 x 57 based wildcat, circa .284 performance, maybe 100 fps less), and some still on .308 Winchester, ex target rifles.

 

[Lbart]

David,
Since you want to be competitive for at least three years you must be planning on shooting in the next F-Class World Championships in England in July 2009. I will see you in Raton in September and hopefully at Bisley in 2009.

The English and US shooters seem to be headed toward the use of heavy 7mm or .308 bullets in a WSM size or larger case. Whether or not this trend continues remains to be seen, the recoil may affect some people. Larger case volume equals less barrel life of course for a give size/weight of bullet.

If you are intent on shooting a 7mm using the heavier 175-180 bullets and the South African powders you will have to consider your case volume accordingly. I have been told the SA’s used an Ackley improved 30-06 case for their 7mmm wildcat in 2005, but they used 168 VLD’s. They did this to match the case volume to the powder available. Below is a case volume list I pilfered from a fellow shooters post. The volume was measured using H-335, a ball powder.

H335 powder, filled to top and scraped off level, results were:
300 wsm,norma) - 84 grains
300 saum,norma) - 77 grains
6.5x06 A.I.,norma 270) - 77
6.5X284,Lapua)-71

As you can see an Ackley improved gives you 6 grains more room over a 284 and the same volume as a 300 SAUM and would allow you to use your .308 Win size bolt faces. The question is will that size case allow you to push 175/180’s fast enough. I am GUESSING you should see 2925-2950 fps in a 30” barrel. A 284 will give you less than 2900 fps on average. If you step up to a WSM case then you should be able to get 3000 fps with the right powder. Some of the Brits are using the 8x68s case,7mm BooBoo) to get 3150-3200 with 180’s. Barrel life and fouling can’t be good.

Only you can figure out whether or not you have access to the required powders for the case you select. The caliber and case are not the only things that go into a first class F-Class rifle. You still need a good action, stock, trigger, barrel and scope. You have to consider this. If you can wait until you get to Raton I am sure you will have a much better idea of what top notch F-Class equipment is like.

The winners at a major match are not those with the biggest case or fastest bullet, but those that are prepared and can read the wind the best on those days. Don’t let your lack of the latest equipment deter you from enjoying this sport.

If I can be of more help please contact me.

Larry Bartholome

 

[ChrisNam]

Larry

Thank you very much for a very informative response,to a very dramatic thread heading).

After Bloemfontein 2005 we heard that you guys are considering moving away from the 6.5 x 284 due to the relative short barrel life,900 - 1200) to the 7mms,284 Win or WSM). Later we detected a definite shift under the 1000 BR guys to the bigger 6mms. It however appears as if you will remain with the 6.5 x 284 for the World Championships in 2009. Am I correct?

What are your views on the ideal 1000y rifle? If it remains the 6.5 x 284 and taking our problem with barrel life into consideration, what will be your next choice?

Does the 7mm 168gr Sierra / Berger at 2960 - 3000 fps have any significant advantage over the 6.5mm 140 -142 bullet or is any advantage offset by the increased recoil? Will the only real advantage only show with a 180gr at 2950 - 3000 fps?

Does the 6mm 105 - 115gr bullets offer any solution?

We all have or are in the process of building 6 x 47 Lapuas,some have similar wildcats)and those still shooting the 7mm Tombis,7 x 57 AI) must decide now on an upgrade if we want to be competitive at Raton,not that we are in the same class as you guys). Will the 6 x 47 Lapua,1:8 twist, 105/7gr billets) be competitive at 800 - 1000y?

We will really appreciate all your thoughts on the subject.

 

[ken4570tc]

Chris,

I'm just starting my second season of competitive long range shooting,1000BR). Having personally watched someone set a new NBRSA 5 shot record with a 6Dasher and reading about other records and wins based on smaller capacity 6mm cartridges out to 1000 yards at 3000-3100fps muzzle velocity, I'm not convinced that bigger is better. Talking to a 6Dasher shooter he attributes his success to multiple factors,less recoil/less expensive to shoot/more shooting-trigger time). He also claims great barrel life. When I go for my first custom barrel/chambering it will be 6Dasher or 6XC.

Wish you guys the best of luck.

Ken

 

[Aussie_bob]

F Class,
I have shot F Class now 2 times 300 yards and 500 yards and that was with my 13.5lb 30BR got a second at 300 and 3rd at 500 my mate and the Queens Shoot winner from last year beat me at 500 by 2 points they ran equal.
This is the mate that's built the 7X47L 10 twist 39.2gr of Ar2208/Varget 130gr Sierra Match Kings at 2950fps.
He will be shooting again this weekend at 600 so will see how it progresses i won`t be able to shoot now till the 700 or 800 comp as i have shoots to run on those days at our SSAA range shooting short range bench-rest.
I am in the process of trying a 30X47L see how fast i can launch heavier projectiles i can all ready shoot 125gr projectiles at 3,000fps from my 30BR but cannot fit anymore powder.

 

[Lbart]

Chris,

A lot of discussion was done after the last WFCC in 2005 nothing concrete came out of it. I see not advantage to going to a 7mm to increase barrel life. If you are going to push a heavy,175-180 gr.) to 3,000 fps then you are going to have to use more powder to do it and your barrel life is going to go back down. There is no free lunch. I have no idea what the U.S. team will use in 2009, as far as I know it has not been decided. Thank goodness I don’t have to make those decisions anymore.

I know I will not be entering any big L-R matches with a barrel that will finish the match with 1,000 rounds through it no matter what caliber/case it is.

My ideal 1k F-Class rifle? Right now I am in a state of flux. I would like less wind drift, but haven’t decided if the disadvantages are worth the small amount of gains. A one mph change that is missed equates to about 5”, but a good shooter will stay up with the changes as he shoots and can just as well over dope as under dope the changes. Less recoil IS an advantage! A better grouping rifle,which less recoil contributes to) is a big advantage. For now I have enough 6.5 barrels to last me the rest of this year, so I think I’ll be shooting that.

I started F-Class shooting in 1999 with a 6BR and 107’s at 2930 fps. I won a lot of big matches at 800-1,000 using the 6BR. I even set a 1k NBRSA record with it in 1999 and did quite well in the IBS Nationals during a hurricane. A 6BR just drives tacks. If the bullet didn’t come up in the X-ring I knew I made a bad call. I have never had better rifles than my 6BR’s.

The larger 6mm’s will give you better wind drifts than the 6BR and better barrel life than the large 6.5 and 7mm’s, but you will give up some wind drift. To get reliable 3k+ with a 115gr you are going to need a bigger case than the 6x47 Lapua. I wish I had tried a 6mm Remington rather than my 6XC. For an international traveler the 6mm’s have the advantage in that the ammo weighs less.

1k BR is a different game than F-Class at 1k. In BR you can shoot fast if you can pick your condition, but at a WFCC you are going to be shooting at least two a target and taking turns firing each shot. Less drift can be an advantage for the average shooter.

To answer your last question about the 6x47 Lapua with 105/107’s being competitive in Raton, I would say yes, provided you can launch them at 3,000 fps, 3,100 would be better. If you feel you must come to beat everyone then you better bring something to launch your 7mm 180’s or 210’s at the speed of light and extra barrels. Keep in mind EVERY bullet must reach the target.

I hope I have not confused you more than I have helped. There are hard decisions to make in any worth while endeavor and everyone has to make their own.

 

[KentReeve]

"I wish I had tried a 6mm Remington rather than my 6XC."

Hi Larry,

Can you elaborate on the above? Is the reason velocity? And if so, why not go with a standard .243 or 243AI,assuming you like steeper than the 20 degree shoulder)?

Thanks!

Kent

 

[Lbart]

Kent,
I love my 6BR, but when I had it built back in 1998 the reasoning was if it didn’t work we could always run the reamer in further. I never did that, but after Tubbs came out with the 6XC and his cases I did have a couple barrels chambered up thinking that I could push 115’s at 3,000 or more. That has not been my experience so far. I know people say they have, but with the VERY limited experience I had with some of the brass I tried I feel a bigger case is the way to go. I have a thousand Norma cases but haven’t had a chance to try them yet.

For an old factory case the 6mm Rem has some good points, a 26* shoulder, a long neck and more capacity than the .243. Anything L-R a .243 will do a 6mm Rem will do better. I don’t do wildcats. A 6.5-300WWH back in 1971 was enough for me.

See you in Phoenix?
Larry Bartholome

 

[dsbw]

Thanks for everyone's well founded replies. A lot can be learned from people who's been in the game for some time, which is why a facility like the forum is of tremendous value. In summary to my original question it is clear that the old principle still applies to F-class in as much as it does to pretty much anything else: Sort out the basics first,i.e. learn to master conditions and spend time on the range) before one should worry about what you're shooting currently or what to shoot next.

In fact, I don't see the point in arguing too much about speed etc., given that standard 6mm BR's are able to set records for some years already.

 

[ChrisNam]

David

Thats exactly what I've been telling you for years now!!!

 

[KentReeve]

"For an old factory case the 6mm Rem has some good points, a 26* shoulder, a long neck and more capacity than the .243. Anything L-R a .243 will do a 6mm Rem will do better. I don’t do wildcats. A 6.5-300WWH back in 1971 was enough for me.

See you in Phoenix?"

Hi Larry,

I'm with you on wildcats. For our game, more trouble than they are worth,and I'm not sure they even have any worth beyond a standard chambering for our game). A 6.5-300, geezus, did it last beyond 500 rounds???

No Phoenix in Feb for me, too many other things require the vacation time.

Hugh Manis,sadly deceased) was a proponent of 6mm Rem, his sure shot well.

Take care,

Kent