Full length sizing?

[Hapnin]

Hello all.Been reading here a while, now I got a question.
I'm a reloading rookie as you're all about to find out.
I'm trying to full length resize my brass,Lapua).They are once fired in my Ar-10 chambered for .243.I've got a brand new Forster press, and I'm using a Redding type "s" die.I lube the brass, run it through the die and wipe the lube off.Stick it in my headspace gauge and the headspace never changes.Even with the die screwed all the way to the shell holder.Would this be a good time to re-anneal, not sure that's a word)?Any other suggestions?Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve.

 

[jb1000br]

is it just touching the shellholder or hitting it and camming over?

 

[Asa_Yam]

Are you using an "S" bushing die, or an "S" Full Length die? The former only sizes the case neck - this is NOT what you want in a semiauto rifle.

If the "S" die doesn't work, Redding makes pretty good conventional dies. If you're shooting your ammo through a factory chamber, chances are good that the rifle won't be able to tell the difference in ammo loaded with a regular die vs. an "S" die

 

[vegeta]

I thought I read somewhere on this board that the full length S dies from Redding cannot be used to bump the shoulder back.

I am currently neck sizing using an S bushing die and then followed by a Redding body die. I am bumping the shoulder back 0.001 or so.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Forum Boss]

I thought I read somewhere on this board that the full length S dies from Redding cannot be used to bump the shoulder back.

I am currently neck sizing using an S bushing die and then followed by a Redding body die. I am bumping the shoulder back 0.001 or so.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

As Asa Yam pointed out there are two versions of the 'S' die. If you have the Type 'S' full-length bushing die you can FL size and neck size at the same time. Otherwise you need to use the body die separately as you've described. Another option that can work very well is to get a Forster FL-die and send it to Forster to ream the neck to provide the amount of tension you want. The honing service is $10 plus shipping. In my experience this gives you a low-runout one-pass solution with none of the brass build-up at the base of the neck that bushings can produce over time.

 

[Hapnin]

Thanks for all the reply's.

I am using the type "s" full length sizing die with a .268 bushing.My idea was to FLS and neck size in one pass as has been pointed out.

JB...I've got it set up right now to just touch the jaws.I pulled the handle all the way down and screwed the die in to touch.I wasn't sure that I wanted the die to 'press' on the jaws too much.

I had already ordered the Redding from Sinclair when I thought about the Forster option.I may still go this route.By the time I have it honed, it would still be cheaper than my die,after buying the TN bushing and carbide expander kit).Sounds like it may produce better rounds too.?
Any more thoughts?

Thanks again.

PS. This site rocks!!

 

[memilanuk]

Steve,

Interesting problem. I've just recently went thru a similar situation. When I started loading my 6mm BR, I started w/ a Redding body die and Wilson stainless micrometer hand dies in an arbor press. Picked up a set of Redding Competition seater and Type 'S' bushing F/L dies and found no noticeable difference in my scores, but a big difference in speed of loading.

Last couple times thru shooting I noticed the bolt getting harder and harder to close. I use Redding competition shell holders,0.002" increments) to control headspace, so I put in the next size smaller... bolt still got harder to close. Went to the next smaller size shell holder; bolt got so hard to close I think I almost galled the bolt lugs,!!!). Next time reloading I pulled out ye ole' measuring tools, and found that the die wasn't pushing the shoulder back at all. Put in the body die... crunched the shoulder back 0.010". Started fiddling around w/ one thing and another, and in the end got the Type 'S' die to properly bump the shoulder... I think it was mainly due to case lube... switched back to Imperial Sizing die wax from Hornady One Shot and could 'feel' the shoulder bump again. I think this might have been due to the design of the loading blocks I use being too deep for the BR cases and not enough lube getting on the body, just the shoulders.

Another time, I did have a set of Redding dies that I could never get the shoulder bumped back at all... headspace actually *grew* about 0.005" when I sized the case... apparently once in a while one slips thru that the hole gets reamed a touch too deep and while the body gets 'squeezed' the shoulder never gets 'bumped'. In that case you can either a) send it back to Redding to get fixed, b) take it to a machinist and have them trim 0.010-0.020" off the base of the die, or c) take a mill file and carefully take a bit off the top of a,now) dedicated shell holder until you get the sizing you want.

HTH,

Monte

 

[Forum Boss]

Thanks for all the reply's.

I am using the type "s" full length sizing die with a .268 bushing.My idea was to FLS and neck size in one pass as has been pointed out.

JB...I've got it set up right now to just touch the jaws.I pulled the handle all the way down and screwed the die in to touch.I wasn't sure that I wanted the die to 'press' on the jaws too much.

Hapnin,

Sounds like an easy fix. I think you just need to screw your die in a bit further. It's not at all unusual to not get any shoulder bump until the die is set past "touching" to provide cam-over. Try adjusting the die so it is 1/8th turn past touching, and check for your bolt feel. You may have to go a little further. If you look at the BLOG from a couple weeks back it shows how you can measure how much you're bumping your shoulder using just a set of calipers and a .45acp case,thanks to Boyd Allen for the tip).

If even putting in cam-over doesn't solve your problem, then you may have to file your shell-holder as others have noted. But I bet 1/8 to 1/4 turn will put you in business.

 

[Hapnin]

Thanks.

I've definately read on here about someone taking .015" off the bottom of the die in order to get it to bump.I probably won't bother.I'll probably try screwing it down a little farther to see if it helps any.Then I'll call Redding.It's been my experience that every company lets one of their products "get away" that's not quite right once in a while.It happens.

Part of the reason for this thread was that I was wondering if the case shoulder could get so "hard" that it couldn't be bumped back without annealing to soften it up.Again...I'm very new at this and could possibly be missing the whole point of annealing altogether.I just wondered if it would help.I've been finding out as I go that good rounds aren't simple to produce.Especially for this gas gun.But I'm learnin'.

Thanks,
Steve.

 

[jb1000br]

Steve -- as i suspected Screwing the die in a bit further should solve the problem...keep us updated

JB

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi i had the same trouble with my Redding 284 Win Body die the cases would grow 4 thou so i placed the die in the lathe and spun it at a medium speed and set up a die grinder with an abrasive stone on it and removed 15 thou. the grinding did not cut down to the radius so it works perfectly and now has 5 thou clearance between the shell holder and i dont have to cam the press into a die. I would rather only adjust the die and leave the shell holders alone as they are used for multiple cases. The redding competition shell holders actualy increase the headspace with each increment and do not reduce it. I and others wish it worked the other way as you can back your die out of the press but when they hit each other you cant wind them any closer i think redding should offer a set to reduce the headspace not increase it for shooters that run zero headspace like match shooters and myself.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[chino1969]

I've run into this problem several times with min. spec. chambers; the shell not being able to insert into the die far enough to bump the shoulder & squeeze the base. The fix was to chuck the die in the lathe and take a .005 to .010 cut off the bottom of the die. The die was then set up to minimally re-size and bump the shoulder back .001 and it was perfect.

 

[BoydAllen]

Dies are hard; shell holders are soft. I ran into the same problem and a friend, who had already faced off the ends of his three jaw jaws, took a few thousandths off of one of my shell holders in not much more time than it took me to type this post. There are two advantages: setup time; and no grit on the lathe ways.

 

[Hapnin]

Ok..I dropped th arm on the press and screwed the die down tight against the jaws,shell holder on the Forster).I let the arm up and gave the die a little bit more twist.So now the die base is taking up all the slack between the jaws and the actual base of the ram.Works perfect.I'm still not happy with the neck sizing job with the bushing set up but I just remove the decapping pin and the bushing and use it as a body die.I will definately be getting a Forster FL die.I'll also be having it bored to my neck sizing diameter to do it all in 1 pass.

Thanks JB and everyone who helped me find my problem.
I'm sure I'll have more questions in the near future.

Thanks again,
Steve.