FTR neck turning question?

[savageshooter86]

Do most turn necks even if chamber is closer to SAAMI spec? I have a 342 neck chamber. And I just bought same lot of Lapua brass and so far have separated neck thicknesses to 14-16 lot, 15-15.5 lot, and 15-16 lot. Would I gain anything by turning the 15-15.5/ 15-16 lot? I culled out the 14-16 for my load work up and sighters/foulers

Once again this is for 1000 yard FTR gun.

And during my initial load work up with the 14-16 lot I was very pleased with the results I was getting on paper doing work up at 500 yards

 

[jsthntn247]

Why not turn them all to .014 so you can use all of them without seperating.

 

[savageshooter86]

Was asking to see about not having to turn them. I don't have turner yet

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I have never turned necks on Lapua brass.

 

[Joe R]

I have never turned necks on Lapua brass.

So how do you deal with runout?

 

[JRS]

With a SAAMI spec chamber, I wouldn't neck turn. The brass expands too much.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I have never turned necks on Lapua brass.

So how do you deal with runout?

What runout?

 

[Scott Harris]

I have a .342 chamber and turn lapua to .014.

 

[XTR]

I have never turned necks on Lapua brass.

So how do you deal with runout?

What runout?

^^ This.

 

[Joe R]

savageshooter86,
After a couple of firings your brass necks will get thicker necks and your ammo will be less accurate, you may also start to get stuck cases. Then you will have to turn necks.

To get consistent results you have to have consistent neck tension. Dissimilar neck thickness will result in runout issues.

Every book I have read about precision reloading talks about turning necks to achieve consistent accuracy. Read Tony Boyer, Dave Brennan and Glen Zediker's books and you'll see a good deal of discussion there. I don't understand how Denys doesn't have runout issues, but I'm not using Lapua brass. The only possible explanation is that because he anneals every time he reloads the soft neck brass is somehow reshaping itself during the sizing or bullet seating process. Or maybe he is doing something else to mitigate its effects. Nobody gets a free pass in physics.

Of the three books that I've mentioned Dave Brennan's book has the best explanation on the importance of critical relationship between the size of the expander mandrel and the diameter of the mandrel of the neck turner (pg. 160). I had to figure this one out on my own because I just recently got this book. You can't just buy an expander mandrel from one place and a neck turner from another and expect them to work together. And the differences are measured in 1/10,000s

jsthntn247 said: Why not turn them all to .014 so you can use all of them without seperating.

That's what most people do.

 

[DaveMarine1]

I turn my FTR Lapua brass all to .014 and this cleans about 90% of the neck. I do it for peace of mind and the results are slowly better than no turn lapua but the shot to shot consistency seems to out way any slight accuracy gain or loss. I like it. Still new to it but I like turning and have the time here and there to do so so I feel I am not out anything.

 

[XTR]

savageshooter86,
After a couple of firings your brass necks will get thicker necks and your ammo will be less accurate, you may also start to get stuck cases. Then you will have to turn necks.

This applies to tight neck chambers. Shooting 308s with .005 to .008 neck clearance this is not really an issue.

To get consistent results you have to have consistent neck tension.

True statement.

Dissimilar neck thickness will result in runout issues.

Define issues. I just checked the runout on cases with 6 firings on them and my runout on the bearing surface is <.001.

I fired 5 grouips with same at 200 yards doing load testing, 3 out of 5 groups put two of the three holes overlaping.

Every book I have read about precision reloading talks about turning necks to achieve consistent accuracy. Read Tony Boyer, Dave Brennan and Glen Zediker's books and you'll see a good deal of discussion there. I don't understand how Denys doesn't have runout issues, but I'm not using Lapua brass. The only possible explanation is that because he anneals every time he reloads the soft neck brass is somehow reshaping itself during the sizing or bullet seating process. Or maybe he is doing something else to mitigate its effects. Nobody gets a free pass in physics.

Of the three books that I've mentioned Dave Brennan's book has the best explanation on the importance of critical relationship between the size of the expander mandrel and the diameter of the mandrel of the neck turner (pg. 160). I had to figure this one out on my own because I just recently got this book. You can't just buy an expander mandrel from one place and a neck turner from another and expect them to work together. And the differences are measured in 1/10,000s

I have no doubt that turning necks will improve your precision; however, by how much? Will it give you a full .1MOA or something closer to a .025 or be generous and call it .050? What will it do for your score in F class or HP shooting? If it doesn't put points on the board don't frack with it till you are retired and have nothing better to do or unless it's just something that will make you feel better at the end of the day.

If you shoot BR where they measure groups to .0001 then by all means do that and the hundred other things that it takes to collect the pound of gnat wings and fairy tears that it takes to load 5 bullets that will shoot in the zeros. Shooting 120 rounds plus sighters a weekend at a 1MOA 10-ring at 1000 yards a gun and load that will consistently shoot under .3 at 200 and under .4 at 600 will win every weekend if the shooter can read wind.


I've seen more points lost to shooters that centered their groups in the top ½ of the 10-ring than from needing another .025. Either plot your shots closely or have someone do it and see how many points you lose at 2 o'clock as opposed to 4 o'clock. Then look at those numbers and see where you could have gained back points if your shots held tighter water line and your group size may have been held a bullet diameter tighter, because that's probably about what you are trying to gain. How many more points would you have gained by just coming down one click on your scope and that takes a whole lot less time than turning necks.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Gosh, I didn't mean to start a big debate about neck turning; all I said was that I didn't do it and that I was not experiencing any runout.

There are a lot of things I don't do in loading; I don't clean primer pockets, I don't trim and then point meplats, I don't neck size, I don't sort brass and I don't sort bullets. On the other hand I buy the best components I can trust and assemble them the best I can; Lapua brass, JLK bullets, Varget powder, etc.

 

[dreever]

I have a minimum SAMMI spec chamber and use Lapua brass. I do not choose to neck turn even though I have the equipment to do so. Why? First and foremost it's not a BR rifle. It's more of the Tactical persuasion so I load to just short of max magazine length. I'm not trying to shoot groups in the ones. Second Lapua brass is pretty darn good right out of the box. I do sort my loaded rounds by runout saving the less than .001 to use at the longer yardages (past 500). Any more than .0015-.002 I mark and use for sighters or foulers. Even then at yardages less than 500 I doubt that i could tell the difference on target. If I had a tight neck chamber I would neck turn, and perhaps after half dozen loadings or so I'll trim and neck turn just to clean things up a bit.
I have a 6BR bench rifle that I do every concievable thing to get it to shoot itty bitty groups for Ground Hog matches, but that's a different animal entirely.

Danny

 

[amlevin]

I have yet to see "perfect" Lapua brass. Better than other brands, yes. Perfect, no.

I turn all my Lapua Brass to .014" and it made a difference on the targets for me. Expand too much? I just anneal at regular intervals and only get rid of the brass when the primer pockets get too large to hold primers tight.

Turn once after a firing or two and don't look back. No more sorting.

 

[Bart B.]

The issue of getting straight case necks on resized cases was mentioned.

'Tis my opinion that the straightest necks on resized bottleneck rounds happens when a gelded one-piece full length sizing die's used whose neck diameter is 1 or 2 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. Such die's neck axis is permanently and perfectly aligned with the die's shoulder and body axis'.

A very close second is a full bushing die such as the commercial ones made by Redding and RCBS. Their floating bushing doesn't perfectly align its hole to size case necks perfectly on the case axis as the case body's held by the die. But it's pretty close and these dies are popular with a lot of top ranked competitors.

By gelded, that's a die without a ball on its decapping rod; just the pin at the end to push out the fired primer. Expander balls tend to bend sized down case necks crooked as the case shoulder wall isn't uniform in thickness all the way around. The ball coming back up through the case neck bends the neck in the direction of the thin side of the shoulder wall. And it works the case neck brass a second time after the die's sized it down earlier. One sizing operation on case necks work hardens them a lot less.

Besides, bottleneck cases headspacing on their shoulder have their shoulders hard into and very well centered in the chamber shoulder when they're fired. Any off-center issue of the case neck on the case shoulder puts it off center in the chamber neck; doesn't matter how much clearance there is and there'll always be some. A well centered case neck on a .243 case shoulder will align its bullet dead center in a .308 Win chamber should the firing pin drive it hard into the chamber shoulder then fire the round.

 

[thefitter]

"... gelded one-piece full length sizing die..." ??

 

[Bart B.]

It's ball has been removed. Gelded; same thing with male horses.

 

[JRS]

Unfortunately, you won't find a factory offering that will give you your perfectly straight case.

 

[Bart B.]

Forster will hone out their standard dies to customer specs for $10 or so each.

Strip your own die, put it bottom out in a lathe headstock, run the lathe at medium speed, put 600 grit emery paper on a wood dowel then run it in and out of the die neck until it's diameter is what you want. Some folks have done this since the '60's.