Free bore on 25/06
- Thread starter Clod-NC
- Start date
Never seen any need for free bore in these calibers. Throat the rifle for the longest bullet that you will be using and let it go. Free bore in my experience does not attribute to anything but more velocity because the pressure curve is longer but much less accuracy. In my experience with the 25-06 and hunting bullets it usually shoots better with the bullets at least 10 thousands off the lands anyway. From experience also I never load a bullet in a hunting rifle closer than 10 thousands of the lands. I once was going to get down out of my tree stand and stretch my legs and go out of the woods to my truck to get rid of the coffee I drank at breakfast after a long morning sit and eat a bite of lunch. When I unloaded my rifle the bullet stuck in the barrel and pulled from the case and dumped powder all down in the action of my rifle. I was 35 minutes drive one way away from my cleaning kit. On my way to my truck, yup you know what happened, a big old buck walks right out in the logging road and just looks at me and walks off. No more close to the lands hunting loads for me.
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
Many years ago I used to correspond with P.O. Ackley on a regular basis. He had conducted detailed load data with and without freebore and concluded that it added no value whatsoever. He told me it was marketing hype along with the double radius shoulder.
That knowledge is now common but at that time (50's) many bought into it.
I have also seen a jammed bullet left in the rifle during a match in the rain. Five zeros after that.
Bill
That knowledge is now common but at that time (50's) many bought into it.
I have also seen a jammed bullet left in the rifle during a match in the rain. Five zeros after that.
Bill
Hi folks
Well people that's great!Now at least I know what I wanted to know. Until recently,I had no idea whatsoever that these notions were out there so I considered them as some kind of epitome of rifle accurising,that's why I didn't want to miss it,especially on my first ever built...Thanks to all three of you for your help,knowing that PO Ackley himself advised against it speaks for itself.Thanks a lot gentlemen.
CB
PS: a special one to Wayne,thanks again mate,confirm reception of my pm please Bozo,I'm not too sure it got to you.Thanks in advance.
Well people that's great!Now at least I know what I wanted to know. Until recently,I had no idea whatsoever that these notions were out there so I considered them as some kind of epitome of rifle accurising,that's why I didn't want to miss it,especially on my first ever built...Thanks to all three of you for your help,knowing that PO Ackley himself advised against it speaks for itself.Thanks a lot gentlemen.
CB
PS: a special one to Wayne,thanks again mate,confirm reception of my pm please Bozo,I'm not too sure it got to you.Thanks in advance.
There is none!!!
You will not find a factory rifle or reamer with free bore for the .25-'06 Remington or 6.5-'06 A-Square!!!
Haveing said that there is freebore depending on the bullet lenght (weight).
Give us more info on what you are talking about and we can better inform you (not educate you, you are plenty smart).
This sounds like a Weatherby throat (freebore) question?
You will not find a factory rifle or reamer with free bore for the .25-'06 Remington or 6.5-'06 A-Square!!!
Haveing said that there is freebore depending on the bullet lenght (weight).
Give us more info on what you are talking about and we can better inform you (not educate you, you are plenty smart).
This sounds like a Weatherby throat (freebore) question?
Hi again
Well Glo,to make it as precise and concise as I can,talkative as I am,the goal is medium long range(300 600 yds)Rusa deer(a javanese subspecies of indian Rusa)shooting,I'm not too much for paper shooting(ammo is quite dear here in New Caledonia),the caliber(25/06)is unknown or nearly so here too,so no commercial ammo either as of now,intend to reload,bullets will be Nosler BT 100 to 115grs(or any other brand the retailers will make accessible),known to be highly effective on this kind of game(average weight 180pds). Country is pretty brushy,hilly,hot(tepid even),deer very smart and cunning and tough fibered,hence the said caliber apparently famous for spectacular kills.Hope it helps to have a better picture of the situation.Thanks in advance for your help,I do appreciate.Merry Xmas to all and safe hunting.I almost forgot, the intended scope will be Vortex Viper 4x16x50,now I reckon you have it all.
Well Glo,to make it as precise and concise as I can,talkative as I am,the goal is medium long range(300 600 yds)Rusa deer(a javanese subspecies of indian Rusa)shooting,I'm not too much for paper shooting(ammo is quite dear here in New Caledonia),the caliber(25/06)is unknown or nearly so here too,so no commercial ammo either as of now,intend to reload,bullets will be Nosler BT 100 to 115grs(or any other brand the retailers will make accessible),known to be highly effective on this kind of game(average weight 180pds). Country is pretty brushy,hilly,hot(tepid even),deer very smart and cunning and tough fibered,hence the said caliber apparently famous for spectacular kills.Hope it helps to have a better picture of the situation.Thanks in advance for your help,I do appreciate.Merry Xmas to all and safe hunting.I almost forgot, the intended scope will be Vortex Viper 4x16x50,now I reckon you have it all.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Clod,Clod-NC said:
I got the p.m in reply to the one I sent you last night, if you have p.m me again then no I have not got one.
I don't know why these people are telling you that you need no free bore unless your going to use a separate throater to set the throat length. For instance I had dave Kiff grind my 6brx reamer with .104 freebore for my throat so I could seat the 107SMK's where I wanted them, I actually wished I had went with .114-.125 If you plan on running .000 free bore then plan on shooting wad cutters out of it.
Wayne.
Dave Berg said:
I think my definition of free bore is different than yours. I'm sorry for the confusion. I define lead (leade) as the extra space ground on the reamer to allow for proper bullet seating and magazine fit. In example the .25-'06 Remington has a .105†leade as per SAAMI voluntary performance standards, Section I. Also, the .25-'06 has a generally accepted maximum C.O.A.L. Of 3.25†despite the generally accepted magazine length of 3.34â€.
Free bore to me is any amount over the leade for chamber pressure control and bullet length with no regards to proper bullet seating and/or magazine fit.
I hope that clarifies my statement.
P.S. Proper bullet seating pertains to factory ammunition ONLY, as loaded for factory rifles, chambered for factory cartridges; NOT hand loads.
Hi everyone
Well thanks to all of you who took part in this thread,all very interesting and helpful,I'm much grateful to you who gave me a little of their time and patience on this project that'll definitely be Saami specs chamber,26" 1/10 twist,semi heavy barrel(Douglas 5a contour),Zoli action,in order to let fly 100 to 115 pills with as much accuracy I'll be able to attain through case prep,load development,best bullets I can find in this class.If I ever need any more advice I'll let you know,assured that you will not fail me,so thank you gentlemen and a merry Xmas to all of you and your families. CB
Well thanks to all of you who took part in this thread,all very interesting and helpful,I'm much grateful to you who gave me a little of their time and patience on this project that'll definitely be Saami specs chamber,26" 1/10 twist,semi heavy barrel(Douglas 5a contour),Zoli action,in order to let fly 100 to 115 pills with as much accuracy I'll be able to attain through case prep,load development,best bullets I can find in this class.If I ever need any more advice I'll let you know,assured that you will not fail me,so thank you gentlemen and a merry Xmas to all of you and your families. CB
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I had a custom 25/06 and I cut the freebore in half and could have cut more. That case holds a lot of powder and even with 117g Sierra Flat base and R#25, I still had room to stuff the bullet into the case.
You can only jump a bullet so far before you start to loose accuracy and a custom 25/06 is capapable of some very fine accuracy.
Factroy SAAMI spec will call for a 3* leade angle, Change that to 1 1/2* leade angle, tighten up the throat dia to .2575 and only have .050 leade, and specify a Minimum SAAMI spec chamber dimensions so that you will not have that huge bulge on the back of the case at the web.
Good luck!
You can only jump a bullet so far before you start to loose accuracy and a custom 25/06 is capapable of some very fine accuracy.
Factroy SAAMI spec will call for a 3* leade angle, Change that to 1 1/2* leade angle, tighten up the throat dia to .2575 and only have .050 leade, and specify a Minimum SAAMI spec chamber dimensions so that you will not have that huge bulge on the back of the case at the web.
Good luck!
Hi Keithcandler
Well,thanks for the advice,I'll ask the guy at McGowen for a mini Saami specs chamber(hope he has the corresponding reamer for it). I intend to neck turn my brass,just to uniform it the best I can,not the kind of job benchrest shooters do,after all it's just a hunting rig,but I want to do it as fine as possible,so I'll take particular care in developping my loads and preparing my brass,it should turn out OK I hope. I'll keep you all informed as soon as I can(very soon hopefully),in the meantime,thanks gentlemen,it's been a real pleasure. A nice Xmas to all.
Well,thanks for the advice,I'll ask the guy at McGowen for a mini Saami specs chamber(hope he has the corresponding reamer for it). I intend to neck turn my brass,just to uniform it the best I can,not the kind of job benchrest shooters do,after all it's just a hunting rig,but I want to do it as fine as possible,so I'll take particular care in developping my loads and preparing my brass,it should turn out OK I hope. I'll keep you all informed as soon as I can(very soon hopefully),in the meantime,thanks gentlemen,it's been a real pleasure. A nice Xmas to all.
From over 20 years of experience in using the 25-06 Rem I can tell you that it is not hard to find a load that will shoot in them. If you want to use both 100 and 115/117 gr bullets and just have one powder IMR 4350 is the way to go. With a 26" barrel there is not that much difference in velocity with the heaver bullets using H-4831 over IMR 4350 (within 50 fps average). With the 100 gr bullets IMR 4350 is THE powder. My standard load in my current 25-06 Rem caliber Rem 700 action, 26" #6 Shilen select match SS 10" twist SAMMI chamber rife comes from the Sierra 4th edition manual as the accuracy load as far as the powder weight is concerned. 49 grs IMR 4350, Rem case, CCI 250 mag primer, 117 Sierra Pro Hunter (flat base) bullet COAL 3.150 which is about 20 thousands off the lands if my memory serves me correct. Velocity average is 3000 fps and accuracy is average 3/4" three shots at 300 yards on a calm day. It don't get much better than this. I have killed well over 200 white tail deer with this caliber with different make and weight bullets from 100 to 120 gr and I can tell you with confidence that if you place one in the front shoulder of a WT deer 99% of the time it drops in it's tracks. The other standard loads for the 25-06 Rem that usually shoots lights out in most rifles are these. With 100 gr bullets 52 grs IMR 4350 and with 115 to 120 gr bullets 52 grs H-4831 or H-4831SC. Be sure to bed you action good and free float the barrel I have an H&S precision full aluminum block stock on my rifle and it really does a good job. Merry CHRISTMAS and a happy New Year and good hunting.
Hi 2506
Of course with such a nickname I don't need to ask if you have some good knowledge of this caliber I suppose!!!Thanks so much for your help and data,it'll will serve me in finding my own loads. I won't be able to use IMR powder just because it's not imported here,but we do have the Australian made equivalent in the name of ADI2209(french company for what I know,Thales group);I've already used it to reload my cousin's 270 and nephew's 243,it works great as far as I know.It's the bedding job that poses a problem,I'll probably have to do it myself,and I'm not too comfortable with this,believe me.But I do have a much more ambitious and innovative project in terms of bedding for this rifle;I hope I can carry it on to it's good term,I'll keep you all informed when and if I can do it.Thanks for your help anyway,much appreciated,and once again a very Merry Xmas to you and everyone,here it's summertime,temps rising to 32°C,storms and cyclone ahead,drought over the country,bush fires,just plain ordinary dry season as usual. Thanks gentlemen. CB
Of course with such a nickname I don't need to ask if you have some good knowledge of this caliber I suppose!!!Thanks so much for your help and data,it'll will serve me in finding my own loads. I won't be able to use IMR powder just because it's not imported here,but we do have the Australian made equivalent in the name of ADI2209(french company for what I know,Thales group);I've already used it to reload my cousin's 270 and nephew's 243,it works great as far as I know.It's the bedding job that poses a problem,I'll probably have to do it myself,and I'm not too comfortable with this,believe me.But I do have a much more ambitious and innovative project in terms of bedding for this rifle;I hope I can carry it on to it's good term,I'll keep you all informed when and if I can do it.Thanks for your help anyway,much appreciated,and once again a very Merry Xmas to you and everyone,here it's summertime,temps rising to 32°C,storms and cyclone ahead,drought over the country,bush fires,just plain ordinary dry season as usual. Thanks gentlemen. CB
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
R#25 in 25/06
with the 100's, I was shooting 3500 fps (neck sized the brass)and the 117's-3200+ in Win brass with fed 215 primers. Groups with the 100's were clover leafs and groups with the 117's were about .375-.400 out of a 26" barrel.
R#22 will also get fantastic velocity with great accuracy, along with R#17.
I only use Winchester brass because it is so tough.
I would determinie what the neck dia of your chamber is before you start neck turning, you may back yourself in a premature condition of splitting necks.
Good luck!
with the 100's, I was shooting 3500 fps (neck sized the brass)and the 117's-3200+ in Win brass with fed 215 primers. Groups with the 100's were clover leafs and groups with the 117's were about .375-.400 out of a 26" barrel.
R#22 will also get fantastic velocity with great accuracy, along with R#17.
I only use Winchester brass because it is so tough.
I would determinie what the neck dia of your chamber is before you start neck turning, you may back yourself in a premature condition of splitting necks.
Good luck!
Hi Wayne
Thanks amigo;the object of neck turning in this particular case is uniforming rather than aiming at a particular thickness reduction related to neck tension,tight neck chamber and the likes,but since you seem to advise against it,I'll take it into account and wait till I see I must do otherwise or hold that line.I really have no idea what this will turn out to be,I do hope it's gonna be a lot of fun though,and it already seems likely to be so.Keep on trucking everyone,and take care. Thanks Bozo,merry Xmas,and a "cool" winter.
Thanks amigo;the object of neck turning in this particular case is uniforming rather than aiming at a particular thickness reduction related to neck tension,tight neck chamber and the likes,but since you seem to advise against it,I'll take it into account and wait till I see I must do otherwise or hold that line.I really have no idea what this will turn out to be,I do hope it's gonna be a lot of fun though,and it already seems likely to be so.Keep on trucking everyone,and take care. Thanks Bozo,merry Xmas,and a "cool" winter.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Remember, that I had a 1-12 twist on this particular 25/06 which drops pressure. I neck sized the 100g loads and the 117g load was a max load for this rifle.
There is a gunsmith in Texas that made his reputation on building 25/06 with Shilen 1-12 twist barrels and R#25, I met several of these guys.
The 1-12 will only stabalize the 100g Sierra flat base and the Sierra 117g flat base, speed and accuracy is really hard to believe. I did no load development in this rifle, just loaded what the gunsmith told me. The 100g load was shooting groups in the .285 area, and after a 4 shot sight in...done in 9 shots! Then a 3 shot group with the 117 with a .400 group, call the rifle hunt ready!
There is a gunsmith in Texas that made his reputation on building 25/06 with Shilen 1-12 twist barrels and R#25, I met several of these guys.
The 1-12 will only stabalize the 100g Sierra flat base and the Sierra 117g flat base, speed and accuracy is really hard to believe. I did no load development in this rifle, just loaded what the gunsmith told me. The 100g load was shooting groups in the .285 area, and after a 4 shot sight in...done in 9 shots! Then a 3 shot group with the 117 with a .400 group, call the rifle hunt ready!
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
Slowing the twist was one of the tricks Roy Weatherby used. Your 100gr 3500fps is pretty close to his real life velocity in the .257 WBY with a 24" barrel.
I have gone another route with a 28" Krieger 1:10 ( very little freebore) on my Model 700 .257 WBY. Using below max. loads of 7828 I get 3710fps with 100gr. Barnes TSX and 3426fps with 115gr. TSX and 110 NAB. Groups average around 3/4".
The long barrel is not a problem shooting from tree stands. Orginally, I designed it for Texas but now use it in SC around Ridgeland
I suspect your .25-05 kills a deer just as quickly as my .257 and you could not tell the difference in the field. Good hunting. Bill
I have gone another route with a 28" Krieger 1:10 ( very little freebore) on my Model 700 .257 WBY. Using below max. loads of 7828 I get 3710fps with 100gr. Barnes TSX and 3426fps with 115gr. TSX and 110 NAB. Groups average around 3/4".
The long barrel is not a problem shooting from tree stands. Orginally, I designed it for Texas but now use it in SC around Ridgeland
I suspect your .25-05 kills a deer just as quickly as my .257 and you could not tell the difference in the field. Good hunting. Bill
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