Forster FL sizing die - way too much neck tension!!!

[thefitter]

This Forster FL sizing die is giving me more problems. I just had some more time to work on the loads for this weekend. When I seated my first bullet it was very stiff so I checked neck tension. It was tight!!

Loaded round = 0.3370

What I have been running with my neck bushing = 0.3350

Forster FL sizing die neck tension = 0.3250

That's 0.0120 neck tension

Now I need to redo 150 rounds!! I know, I know I should have checked earlier. How can I adjust neck tension on a FL sizing die?

 

[jo191145]

Bushing or standard?
Whats the expander ball measure?

 

[thefitter]

Bushing or standard?
Whats the expander ball measure?

Standard. Don't know what size it's at the house. I can't believe it's set for this much neck tension.

 

[jo191145]

If the ball is in there I would quess its the wrong one.
If its not it needs to be reinstalled

 

[bozo699]

thefitter,
If you really have .012 n/k tension and your loads are hot you may have pressure problems, Be Careful My Friend!! A connetic (sp) hammer may not pull them you may have to use a collet puller
Bummer dude!!
Wayne.

 

[Skunce]

I sent my 7mm SAUM sizer die back to Forster and they honed the neck out from .307 to .316 for $10. Took them about a week and the loaded round run out improved greatly. Even if you put a larger expander ball in to get the proper neck tension you'll likely have a lot of bullet run out from over sizing the brass.

 

[bozo699]

I sent my 7mm SAUM sizer die back to Forster and they honed the neck out from .307 to .316 for $10. Took them about a week and the loaded round run out improved greatly. Even if you put a larger expander ball in to get the proper neck tension you'll likely have a lot of bullet run out from over sizing the brass.

I agree

 

[thefitter]

If the ball is in there I would quess its the wrong one.
If its not it needs to be reinstalled

Reinstalled?

 

[thefitter]

thefitter,
If you really have .012 n/k tension and your loads are hot you may have pressure problems, Be Careful My Friend!! A connetic (sp) hammer may not pull them you may have to use a collet puller
Bummer dude!!
Wayne.

Yeah, I have a collet puller, and I only need to pull a few. It's all the expanding and then neck sizing again that's pi**ing me off. I'm glad I decide to load tonight rather than Friday or else Saturday would have been ruined.

 

[RonAKA]

I sounds to me like you have no expander ball in the die. Normally there should be a ball about 0.307" for a .308. With spring back neck ID should come out about 0.306".

Unfortunately in a standard off the shelf die, they have to design it for the thinest possible brass in the neck, so they make it tight to ensure the brass is sized down, and then depend on the expander ball to bring it back up to 0.306" ID.

As suggested earlier you can have the neck honed out larger so it does not size so small. If you get it right then you can go without any expander ball at all.

 

[thefitter]

I sounds to me like you have no expander ball in the die. Normally there should be a ball about 0.307" for a .308. With spring back neck ID should come out about 0.306".

Unfortunately in a standard off the shelf die, they have to design it for the thinest possible brass in the neck, so they make it tight to ensure the brass is sized down, and then depend on the expander ball to bring it back up to 0.306" ID.

As suggested earlier you can have the neck honed out larger so it does not size so small. If you get it right then you can go without any expander ball at all.

It was there, it was just out of place. Thanks

 

[BoydAllen]

Out of place?

 

[thefitter]

Out of place?

Threaded up too high.

 

[CacheCropp]

This Forster FL sizing die is giving me more problems. I just had some more time to work on the loads for this weekend. When I seated my first bullet it was very stiff so I checked neck tension. It was tight!!

Loaded round = 0.3370

What I have been running with my neck bushing = 0.3350

Forster FL sizing die neck tension = 0.3250

That's 0.0120 neck tension

Now I need to redo 150 rounds!! I know, I know I should have checked earlier. How can I adjust neck tension on a FL sizing die?

Huh, that's totally different than what I get with my Forster 308 Match FL sizer. Using the expander that comes with the die as standard, I get .332 necks and most of the bullets I'm using give me .333-.334 O.D. No runout issues yet after 4-5 firings of Win brass.

 

[bozo699]

Not trying to be troublesome but what difference would it make on neck tension where the sizing button was placed? I don' generally run sizing buttons in my dies any more but when I do I usually raise them way up as I am to lazy to remove the depriming pin and I don't want to use the sizing die to deprime or I dont even want the pin going through the flash hoe, and I never seem to have neck tension problems from it.I think maybe you should re-check the actual size of the button.
Wayne.

 

[BoydAllen]

I went to the Forster web site, and because their expander does not secure the decapping pin and is up in the middle of the spindle, it looks like it is possible position it above where the mouth of the case comes to, when fully inserted into the die. As to why this would make a difference, just about all production one piece dies are built so that the case neck is over sized, by a considerable margin, and so require the use of an expander. I always wonder about fellows that give advice on the internet indicating that they don't use expanders on these type dies. If this is done, and the cases being sized have not been turned so that they are quit a bit thinner, as they would be for a tight neck chamber, the resultant inside diameter measurement of a sized case would be IMO excessively small. There has been some excess of enthusiasm for the idea that expander balls are always bad. The reason that they cause problems is that the neck sizing portions of the dies that they are commonly found in are generally so small that dragging the expander through produces excessive pull on the case, causing it to yield unevenly at the shoulder, and this cocks the neck, relative to the CLs of cases. If the die or bushing is properly dimensioned so that the expander is only opening the neck by a couple of thousandths, there is not a problem, especially is a good dry lube is used. When reloading with unturned necks, this can be advantageous.

 

[thefitter]

Not trying to be troublesome but what difference would it make on neck tension where the sizing button was placed? I don' generally run sizing buttons in my dies any more but when I do I usually raise them way up as I am to lazy to remove the depriming pin and I don't want to use the sizing die to deprime or I dont even want the pin going through the flash hoe, and I never seem to have neck tension problems from it.I think maybe you should re-check the actual size of the button.
Wayne.

If it's threaded up to high it does not go into the case at all.

 

[bozo699]

Boyd,
I wasn't really giving advice to not use a expanding button, I just don't use them on most dies I now have. I just didn't understand how you could thread the expander so high it wouldn't enter the mouth of the case, apperently it can on the Forster dies, I own a couple of Forster dies and did not know that, I have learned something new and will check it out when I get home. When I am loading for some old gun I don't really care if it puts them all in one hole, like my old .300 savage I use cheap rcbs dies, and then of course I use the expander ball, but on anything I have built in the last ten years or so has bushing dies or custom honed dies, my 22 br I don't even run them through a sizing die anymore. If you or anyone else thought I was giving advise to not run a expander than I am sorry and apologize, as that was not my intent.
Wayne.

 

[RonAKA]

The Forster Neck and FL dies are a bit different than the other brands. They locate the expander ball up right below the neck. The idea is that if you start to expand the neck before it has left the neck sizing area, it forces the neck to stay concentric. They tell you to line the expander ball up with the vent hole in the die which is in the area of the shoulder.

I didn't know you could move the expander up so high it would be past the neck. That certainly explains the problem though.

 

[jo191145]

Wayne

I did'nt see that as your intent.

It is very common for new handloaders to read on the web or be told at the range, "You gotta get rid of that expander ball".
Thats fine to try if you have a bushing die "or honed"
Hence the reason I suggested fitter look to his expander ball in my posts.
Perhaps he had been given the same advice. Perhaps he was using a standard solid die and had deliberatly removed the ball.
Chances are high he would have figured it out quickly on his own

Seems I and others learned a thing or two.
I had no idea the Forster could be set that way ???
I have a set or two that I never use and looked for myself. Seems they can be set high enough in the die to become inconsequential.
I did not know that.
I'd hate to see what happens if you set it right in the middle of the neck :'(