Forster Co-ax or RCBS Rockchucher Supreme?
- Thread starter RMW59
- Start date
I have the Co-Ax and I love it. I have not had any problems using the Fortster Comp Dies. At least up to 300 WSM. Good luck.
Spotcheck_Billy
Forster all the way! Besides, RCBS ain't the company it used to be :,
Aw come on guys, you boys must work for Foster.....
I find it hard to believe that I am the only person in the world that actually likes the RockChucker.... Hell the first one I only bought it for the name,How can something named RockChucker not be a cool product) the second one I purchased because really liked the product...
Also in my range box are two RCBS Pardner presses, I not sure that they even make these anymore....They are great light single stage presses...
Watch out I also like Lee products.....
Merry Christmas from the Bottom Dweller
I find it hard to believe that I am the only person in the world that actually likes the RockChucker.... Hell the first one I only bought it for the name,How can something named RockChucker not be a cool product) the second one I purchased because really liked the product...
Also in my range box are two RCBS Pardner presses, I not sure that they even make these anymore....They are great light single stage presses...
Watch out I also like Lee products.....
Merry Christmas from the Bottom Dweller
RMW 59
I don't believe you will go wrong with any of the presses that have been mentioned. Once every couple of years, I teach a competitive reloading class for the community college where I work. One of the first assignments I give my students is to have them bring their presses, dies, fired cases,etc. and we do some testing. The rock chucker is an outstanding press. Very stout and has a good reputation and warranty. Very few students show up with a Co-Axle press. They bring in Lyman, Lee, Hornady, Redding and so on. The RCBS's outnumber the other brands considerably. Having said that, the Co-Axle consistently beats all the other brands in the run-out and accuracy department, and yes, the micrometer headed dies will not clear the handle on the ones I am familiar with. So in making a recommendation, I would have to ask you, what are your intentions or what are your requirements? If top accuracy is your main requirement, then I would have to recommend a Co-Axle. The Hornady and Redding also fair well. Again I would have to emphasize that any of the above will serve you well.
Happy Holidays,
Allen Elliott
I don't believe you will go wrong with any of the presses that have been mentioned. Once every couple of years, I teach a competitive reloading class for the community college where I work. One of the first assignments I give my students is to have them bring their presses, dies, fired cases,etc. and we do some testing. The rock chucker is an outstanding press. Very stout and has a good reputation and warranty. Very few students show up with a Co-Axle press. They bring in Lyman, Lee, Hornady, Redding and so on. The RCBS's outnumber the other brands considerably. Having said that, the Co-Axle consistently beats all the other brands in the run-out and accuracy department, and yes, the micrometer headed dies will not clear the handle on the ones I am familiar with. So in making a recommendation, I would have to ask you, what are your intentions or what are your requirements? If top accuracy is your main requirement, then I would have to recommend a Co-Axle. The Hornady and Redding also fair well. Again I would have to emphasize that any of the above will serve you well.
Happy Holidays,
Allen Elliott
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Administrator
I've seen a modification to the handle of a Forster Co-Ax to add a little clearance for the longer micrometer seating dies. It's just a matter of milling out a radius at the top of arc,center of the "wishbone").
Forster also offers an optional "short-throw" version of the handle that works well for short cases. It's item sh1000:
While I like the Co-Ax for full-length sizing, Wilson Micrometer hand dies used with an Arbor press are still my first choice for bullet seating. For the 6BR family and 6PPC cases, the Wilson micrometer top stainless hand dies are superb.
Forster also offers an optional "short-throw" version of the handle that works well for short cases. It's item sh1000:
While I like the Co-Ax for full-length sizing, Wilson Micrometer hand dies used with an Arbor press are still my first choice for bullet seating. For the 6BR family and 6PPC cases, the Wilson micrometer top stainless hand dies are superb.
I'm amazed at the people who like the Forster Co-ax. I've tried a couple of them and it's a total mystery to me. The high handle doesn't fit my loading style to begin with. There is so much linkage and toggling ... it just seems like something from the Dark Ages.
Will someone please explain how the Co-ax can be any better than any other press at run-out. If there's a way for the press to straighten the inside of the die, I need to hear about it. I have a Lee hand-held press, Lee Challenger, Lee Turret, Fred Moreo custom press using Lee turrets, RCBS Jr., older Lyman turret, new Redding Boss and a new Hood BR press. Not one of these presses has any control over loaded round run-out ... run-out is a product of the sizing die and seating die, regardless of press.
If I need enlightening, please feel free.
Will someone please explain how the Co-ax can be any better than any other press at run-out. If there's a way for the press to straighten the inside of the die, I need to hear about it. I have a Lee hand-held press, Lee Challenger, Lee Turret, Fred Moreo custom press using Lee turrets, RCBS Jr., older Lyman turret, new Redding Boss and a new Hood BR press. Not one of these presses has any control over loaded round run-out ... run-out is a product of the sizing die and seating die, regardless of press.
If I need enlightening, please feel free.
ReedG:
On presses like the RCBS etc., some of the run out of the loaded round is a function of how square and true the drilling is between the die threads and the ram. If it is not perfect, and it is not, then you get run out. In fact, the threads on many dies do not make a good match to the threads on the presses!
With the Co-Ax, you slide the die in -- no threads. Shell holder and the die self-align as the die "floats" to find center. If your die is true, you get very little run out.
As Dave Tooley says, "if it is not true and square, it better float." This is a fact that you just can't get around. That is why the Co-Ax produces better loaded rounds than other presses. In fact, my Co-Ax from the 60's produces loaded rounds as true as my Wilson and Carstensen straight-line dies.
On top of that, the Co-Ax has the best primer catching system on the market, the best shell holder and the quickest die change. If you are using a turrent press,not a true progressive), you will find that you can change dies on a Co-Ax as quick or quicker than you can index the turrent for the next die -- and if you are changing cartridge heads -- like from 38 special to 22-250 --you can do it quicker on a Co-Ax.
I have about a dozen presses from RCBS and Redding including more than a few custom made -- and nothing compares with a Co-Ax.
Just my $.02,
Jim Hardy
On presses like the RCBS etc., some of the run out of the loaded round is a function of how square and true the drilling is between the die threads and the ram. If it is not perfect, and it is not, then you get run out. In fact, the threads on many dies do not make a good match to the threads on the presses!
With the Co-Ax, you slide the die in -- no threads. Shell holder and the die self-align as the die "floats" to find center. If your die is true, you get very little run out.
As Dave Tooley says, "if it is not true and square, it better float." This is a fact that you just can't get around. That is why the Co-Ax produces better loaded rounds than other presses. In fact, my Co-Ax from the 60's produces loaded rounds as true as my Wilson and Carstensen straight-line dies.
On top of that, the Co-Ax has the best primer catching system on the market, the best shell holder and the quickest die change. If you are using a turrent press,not a true progressive), you will find that you can change dies on a Co-Ax as quick or quicker than you can index the turrent for the next die -- and if you are changing cartridge heads -- like from 38 special to 22-250 --you can do it quicker on a Co-Ax.
I have about a dozen presses from RCBS and Redding including more than a few custom made -- and nothing compares with a Co-Ax.
Just my $.02,
Jim Hardy
I have both bolted to my loading bench as I load both .223 Rem and 6XC. I like the Co-Ax and re-size all my 6XC on it, but I use the Rockchucker for .223 resizing because I'd have to swap around the clam-shell shell holder on the Co-Ax which is not a 30 second job. I've had all manner of reloading presses in my time, first off a Lee 1000 progressive and then two Hornady Projectors and then a Dillon 1050 but they were all for loading pistol rounds, as we can't have pistols any more,from 1997) I switched to rifle shooting but could not get the quality I wanted from a progressive so I bought a Rockchucker as at that time nobody I knew had a Co-Ax. The Rockchucker has served me well for over ten years and I still use it, the Co-Ax I have only had for 6 months but I like the features on it and if I was starting out again I'd start with the Co-Ax. Incidentally, I seat all my .223 bullets using a Wilson Micro and arbor press, and seat all my 6XC on the Co-Ax,the Redding Competition Seater for 6XC clears the handle no problem. Both presses are pretty good IMHO, best to try them both out if you know some friends who've got them.
Hi Jim:
Happy New Year!
Thanks for the "explain". I know that the myth about the "floating" thing is a big selling point on the Co-Ax, but I don't buy it. Though I'm a native Vermonter I think I'm from Missouri on this one. Even if the threads make a die less than perpendicular to the ram, once the case enters the die, if the inside of the die is concentric then the loaded round will be. Even if the shellholder doesn't contact the mouth of the die squarely, it doesn't change what happens to the case inside the die. Due to the tolerances of shellholders to compensate for the variation in different brands of brass, there is easily enough play to allow a case to be tipped several thousandths without damaging the concentricity of the loaded round.
The Co-Ax is also subject to any effect from the die threads as what actually holds the die is the nut which bears against the frame. If the threads are cockeyed on the die, then even in the Co-Ax the die will not be held perfectly straight. If the die is truly allowed to float, then every case that goes into it can steer it willy-nilly anywhere it wants. How can that be better?
I like the through-the-ram primer path, and several other presses now use that including my Hood. It is difficult to design that into presses that have primer seating attachments, though.
If you like the Co-Ax and feel confident in the way it works, that's what it's all about. That's why they make more than one kind of press. But I disagree that the Co-Ax is somehow better.
I'm a fan of Foster products and believe their dies are some of the best made. They are a great company to deal with and I'm glad the reloading community has them. But I have always considered the Co-Ax to be archaic in design and very unwieldy. Keep in mind that most of my friends belittle me for using Lee Turret Presses, so what do I really know?
Happy New Year!
Thanks for the "explain". I know that the myth about the "floating" thing is a big selling point on the Co-Ax, but I don't buy it. Though I'm a native Vermonter I think I'm from Missouri on this one. Even if the threads make a die less than perpendicular to the ram, once the case enters the die, if the inside of the die is concentric then the loaded round will be. Even if the shellholder doesn't contact the mouth of the die squarely, it doesn't change what happens to the case inside the die. Due to the tolerances of shellholders to compensate for the variation in different brands of brass, there is easily enough play to allow a case to be tipped several thousandths without damaging the concentricity of the loaded round.
The Co-Ax is also subject to any effect from the die threads as what actually holds the die is the nut which bears against the frame. If the threads are cockeyed on the die, then even in the Co-Ax the die will not be held perfectly straight. If the die is truly allowed to float, then every case that goes into it can steer it willy-nilly anywhere it wants. How can that be better?
I like the through-the-ram primer path, and several other presses now use that including my Hood. It is difficult to design that into presses that have primer seating attachments, though.
If you like the Co-Ax and feel confident in the way it works, that's what it's all about. That's why they make more than one kind of press. But I disagree that the Co-Ax is somehow better.
I'm a fan of Foster products and believe their dies are some of the best made. They are a great company to deal with and I'm glad the reloading community has them. But I have always considered the Co-Ax to be archaic in design and very unwieldy. Keep in mind that most of my friends belittle me for using Lee Turret Presses, so what do I really know?
ReedG:
Your opinion is appreciated. But the Co-Ax does work for me and, it appears many others.
Charlie Hood's shop is just a little north of me and he is a great man with a great product. In fact, I have one of his larger presses which I use for load development at the range.
As to my ideas about the alignment -- they "ain't" my ideas. If I am wrong, so is Ferris Pindell and David Tooley.
I use all my presses for one thing or another, but if I had one, it would be the Co-Ax. If you want to compare the RCBS to a conventional threaded press, look at the Redding Ultra. Very nice indeed. As for pure strength, and alignment on a threaded press, the steel based Corbin would crush the others as it is a true beast.
To each his own. Most people like what they have or they would not have it. Like you say, it all comes down to what makes you happy and confident. It is great that we live in a country where we can discuss and be concerned about such otherwise mundane things.
Good shooting in 2007,
Jim
Your opinion is appreciated. But the Co-Ax does work for me and, it appears many others.
Charlie Hood's shop is just a little north of me and he is a great man with a great product. In fact, I have one of his larger presses which I use for load development at the range.
As to my ideas about the alignment -- they "ain't" my ideas. If I am wrong, so is Ferris Pindell and David Tooley.
I use all my presses for one thing or another, but if I had one, it would be the Co-Ax. If you want to compare the RCBS to a conventional threaded press, look at the Redding Ultra. Very nice indeed. As for pure strength, and alignment on a threaded press, the steel based Corbin would crush the others as it is a true beast.
To each his own. Most people like what they have or they would not have it. Like you say, it all comes down to what makes you happy and confident. It is great that we live in a country where we can discuss and be concerned about such otherwise mundane things.
Good shooting in 2007,
Jim
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