Fly Shoot Preparation

[Kyle Schultz]

With another Fly Shoot coming up, I wanted to check the tune on my 6.5X47 "Heavy" gun. This was the first time I've been able to shoot a ladder at distance. The target below was shot today at 500M in windy conditions.



Based on previous testing at 200Y, I have been running 40.4 gr H4350. From the ladder test above it appears the window is 40.3 to 40.6 gr but the sweet spot is 40.4/40.5 gr. So it looks like my previous 200Y testing was useful. Here's the velocity data...

40.3 gr 2850 fps ES 1
40.4 gr 2841 fps ES 4
40.5 gr 2845 fps ES 12
40.6 gr 2864 fps ES 18

I actually shot a separate 1-shot ladder so the velocity data represents the average of 3 shots per powder charge.

I'm debating whether to bump the charge up 0.1 gr or stay at 40.4 gr. Probably stay at 40.4 gr. Good luck!

 

[X-Caveman]

Since I will be shooting against u, I think 40.7 is your sweet spot.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Travis my friend. What would I do without you?

 

[Mega]

Personal opinion only but shooting a ladder at 500 Metres yet alone in windy conditions is a complete waste of time and effort.

Far better off at like 200 Metres under ideal conditions either very early morning or late afternoon with Wind Flags watching the thermals. Then pick a load and test at 500m also under ideal conditions so the comp day is up to the shooter to pick the condition to fire under. My ideal aim and achieved numerous times is at 200m a 0.2" group but it doesn't alwasy pan out that way but a hard look at the main say 3 shots out of 4 as to how they group.

BTW... A common opinion over here is that 140gr 6.5mm Bullets are too heavy for a 6.5x47L @ 500m for consistent accuracy. Yep, I know 140gr are used a lot in the USA for the likes of 1,000 Yard... different ball game. Three of us all using 6.5x47L and 130gr Berger VLD's have a couple of 1st places, best target, smallest group and most times in the top 12 over the past half dozen years. Best competition has come from the likes of 6mm Dasher & 6mmBR depending on the day and skill of the shooter under at times trying conditions. They are my pick also of calibres.

In Heavy Gun class a Light Gun has beaten a Heavy Gun 300 Win Mag easily when it's not wild conditions. Accuracy and reading conditions.

Best of luck at the next Texas 500m Shoot. Batemans Bay in NSW is a "Sell out" so much that the normal 4 Details has been extended to 5 Details to fit everyone in and it's going to be a very long and late finish day.

 

[Tiger73]

Hi Kyle,
I absolutely agree with the Ladder Test process, in windy conditions it can make it challenging to interpret the information that you get out of it, but it tends to work well. Sometimes when the bullet "climbs" the wind it can make it a little harder but there are times when you just have to work with what you have available to you.

I am lucky here in Canberra, Australia in that I have access to two ranges, both ostensibly open 24/7, so I can look at predictions for wind in the next couple of days and plan my testing around when there will be reasonable conditions as much as possible, we have a good group of shooters that work together for things like this, so will set up the range very early on a Saturday morning to do load testing together.

I did the ladder test process earlier this year for my 6mmBR early one morning on Kongsberg electronic targets at 300m, I set up a friends LabRadar next to the firing point and video'd the process of the ladder tests with my iphone, the video captured the monitor of the Kongsberg system as well as the LabRadar output screen, so I could capture the shot placement in x/y co-ordinates on the E-Target monitor as well as the velocity for each shot. This is an awesome use of the technology, and it allows you to go away and interpret the data at a later time.

Before the ladder test I did the Berger jump test, testing 10, 50, 90 and 130thou jump, then did the ladder test with 10 loads between 29.4 and 31.2gns of AR2208 (Varget) using the best jump from the jump test.

I have plotted the results into Excel, you will see in the attached image that the bottom of the graph shows the powder load, the other axis of the graph is the elevation in millimeters (sorry, I'm a metric child)

You will note that I have circled the two loads that I thought showed promise, both were consistent in the separate strings (the middle of three shots that didn't vary wildly in elevation) AND consistent between the two separate ladder tests.

I urge you to now go and test Jump again, I thought I had settled on a load - 29.8gns Varget and 90 thou jump with a 105 Berger VLD, but at 500m I would get 4 shots into around 25 - 30mm and one shot out to blow that 5 shot group to 60 or 70mm (just over an inch to around 3") and both 29.8 gns and 30.4 were doing the same thing to me.

I called my gunsmith (and good friend), Russell LeMaitre as I was perplexed. His advice was to try jamming the projectiles, this is something I have always avoided as I have had good success getting the Berger VLD's to shoot without jamming into the lands. I was desperate, it was two weeks before the Fly Nationals here in Aus, and I was travelling (flying thankfully) 3700km (2300 miles) to Perth on the opposite side of the country with a rifle that wouldn't shoot acceptable groups. It just wasn't a winning combination. I listened to Russ and went ahead, trying 20 and 40thou jam. I am very pleased I did, 20 thou jump gave me a couple of 3 shot 8mm groups at 200m as opposed to over 25mm (1") for the 90thou jump load (I had to try this at shorter distance because the conditions were pretty rough and I was just out of time)

The rifle performed well enough for me to take out the win for Light Gun at the Nationals, so it was time well spent, and the ladder test was fundamental to me finding the load initially.

Cheers.

Dave Groves.

Canberra

 

[mikecockcroft]

Dave Groves has expended a lot of time, effort, and phone calls to help me get 500M Fly Shoots started in Texas.
Thank you Dave
Mike

 

[Tiger73]

Dave Groves has expended a lot of time, effort, and phone calls to help me get 500M Fly Shoots started in Texas.
Thank you Dave
Mike

No problems at all Mike, my pleasure to help.

Dave.

 

[OmegaRed]

Hi Kyle,
I absolutely agree with the Ladder Test process, in windy conditions it can make it challenging to interpret the information that you get out of it, but it tends to work well. Sometimes when the bullet "climbs" the wind it can make it a little harder but there are times when you just have to work with what you have available to you.

I am lucky here in Canberra, Australia in that I have access to two ranges, both ostensibly open 24/7, so I can look at predictions for wind in the next couple of days and plan my testing around when there will be reasonable conditions as much as possible, we have a good group of shooters that work together for things like this, so will set up the range very early on a Saturday morning to do load testing together.

I did the ladder test process earlier this year for my 6mmBR early one morning on Kongsberg electronic targets at 300m, I set up a friends LabRadar next to the firing point and video'd the process of the ladder tests with my iphone, the video captured the monitor of the Kongsberg system as well as the LabRadar output screen, so I could capture the shot placement in x/y co-ordinates on the E-Target monitor as well as the velocity for each shot. This is an awesome use of the technology, and it allows you to go away and interpret the data at a later time.

Before the ladder test I did the Berger jump test, testing 10, 50, 90 and 130thou jump, then did the ladder test with 10 loads between 29.4 and 31.2gns of AR2208 (Varget) using the best jump from the jump test.

I have plotted the results into Excel, you will see in the attached image that the bottom of the graph shows the powder load, the other axis of the graph is the elevation in millimeters (sorry, I'm a metric child)

You will note that I have circled the two loads that I thought showed promise, both were consistent in the separate strings (the middle of three shots that didn't vary wildly in elevation) AND consistent between the two separate ladder tests.

I urge you to now go and test Jump again, I thought I had settled on a load - 29.8gns Varget and 90 thou jump with a 105 Berger VLD, but at 500m I would get 4 shots into around 25 - 30mm and one shot out to blow that 5 shot group to 60 or 70mm (just over an inch to around 3") and both 29.8 gns and 30.4 were doing the same thing to me.

I called my gunsmith (and good friend), Russell LeMaitre as I was perplexed. His advice was to try jamming the projectiles, this is something I have always avoided as I have had good success getting the Berger VLD's to shoot without jamming into the lands. I was desperate, it was two weeks before the Fly Nationals here in Aus, and I was travelling (flying thankfully) 3700km (2300 miles) to Perth on the opposite side of the country with a rifle that wouldn't shoot acceptable groups. It just wasn't a winning combination. I listened to Russ and went ahead, trying 20 and 40thou jam. I am very pleased I did, 20 thou jump gave me a couple of 3 shot 8mm groups at 200m as opposed to over 25mm (1") for the 90thou jump load (I had to try this at shorter distance because the conditions were pretty rough and I was just out of time)

The rifle performed well enough for me to take out the win for Light Gun at the Nationals, so it was time well spent, and the ladder test was fundamental to me finding the load initially.

Cheers.

Dave Groves.

Canberra

I just recently had similar results jamming VLD's.

 

[Nature Boy]

Would someone mind giving a neophyte an overview of what a fly shoot consists of?

When I hear people talk about it I think of this guy....

 

[#40Fan]

Just a target with a fly for the bulls eye.

 

[X-Caveman]

And a scoring system that includes points for proximity to fly, group size & a lil bonus for hitting the fly.

Hit the fly every time, score 60.05. Do it all 5 Targets and u have a perfect score. It’s only 500M, and the fly is pretty big...

 

[mikecockcroft]

Nature Boy
the 500 meter fly shoot is basically a score match with bonus points for group size and the fly that is in the middle of the 10 ring acts like wipeout in varmint for score matches.
A hit on the fly adds .01 to you score so that hit would be 10.01 points
Your group size is measured to the nearest inch and bonus points are based on group size
0 to 1 inch group gets you 10 points
1 to 2 inch gets you 9 points
2 to 3 inch gets you 8 points
all the way down to a 9 to 10 inch group that gets you 1 point
Shoot five targets per class, light and heavy

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Kyle, 40.5 is your tiny group load but its on the edge of blowing up. Either it will shoot tiny or it will be bad. 40.4 is where I would load it. Like others said, go back and work seating depth after that. If you find a better depth re-test powder charge again with the new depth. With a ladder you can work backwards to make it easier. Usually they blow up just after the smallest group load. Its never usually as bad if your light on powder. And take some more of Travis' money !