hello again. I'm new to 600 and 1k bench rest and it seems most of the long range shooters don't neck size but bump the shoulder back with the fl resize. i shoot short range and we neck size ( i do anyway with great results) and am wondering why long range fl sizes? or am i wrong? thanks in advance.
fl sizing vs neck sizing
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I shoot short range score and almost everyone I know full length sizes their cases. FL sized cases will last longer than neck size only cases.
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ttfreestyle
Silver $$ Contributor
I fl size for short and long as well.
Does it have anything to do with helping bullet being helped to align straight with rifling.
I recall a quote by some one "mouse turd in a violin case"
I recall a quote by some one "mouse turd in a violin case"
I believe it may help that. Also the shells function in the gun without upsetting it. I size a little harder then most people. Matt
This subject had been address many times on this web site. Full sizing properly will produce more uniform reloads with improved chambering and will not reduce case life. The key is to not over size the case. A .001 to .002 shoulder bump from a fired case in the specific rifle being loaded usually produces the optimum sizing for bolt rifles. This usually involves a slight cam over of the shell holder.
There are tools made to obtain a precise measurement of shoulder set back. Hornady's head space tool is one such tool and can be used for different cartridges with the various inserts provided. To assure that you are obtaining enough sizing, check the resized case in your rifle.
All the serious target shooters I know employ this method to size their cases. Since I'm primarily a varmint and predator hunter, having reliable chambering is a must for me. Full sizing properly assures this. Like many I believed the myth that neck sizing produces more accurate reloads and longer case life. In my experience I found this is not true.
Eventually after repeated firings of neck sized cases, you will probably have to full size so the case will chamber. You don't want to find that out in the field when you go to chamber a round and it won't chamber.
There are tools made to obtain a precise measurement of shoulder set back. Hornady's head space tool is one such tool and can be used for different cartridges with the various inserts provided. To assure that you are obtaining enough sizing, check the resized case in your rifle.
All the serious target shooters I know employ this method to size their cases. Since I'm primarily a varmint and predator hunter, having reliable chambering is a must for me. Full sizing properly assures this. Like many I believed the myth that neck sizing produces more accurate reloads and longer case life. In my experience I found this is not true.
Eventually after repeated firings of neck sized cases, you will probably have to full size so the case will chamber. You don't want to find that out in the field when you go to chamber a round and it won't chamber.
One of my favorite lines ever. I use it whenever I can.
There is nothing about FL sized cases that would last longer. That's for sure. Truly the longest lasting case would never, ever, have to be sized.
But longer ranges call for larger capacities via larger case area. And given relatively poor reloading designs, FL sizing is simply & often inevitable with this.
With any plan this is not the case. But name anyone here who plans for neck sizing only...
But longer ranges call for larger capacities via larger case area. And given relatively poor reloading designs, FL sizing is simply & often inevitable with this.
With any plan this is not the case. But name anyone here who plans for neck sizing only...
In the past, I always just necked sized for 3 or 4 loadings, then bumped the shoulder about .002. I thought this was best since that way the brass matched my chamber perfectly. I got to noticing though, that my loads shot better after shoulder bumping. After reading up on here, it seems top shooters bump their shoulder every time. I'm pretty convinced myself on bumping the shoulder for best accuracy.
B Nettesheim
Gold $$ Contributor
Full length resizing is much easier on your rifle also. I never could understand why people were crushing the cases as they chambered a round. That tight of a fit wipes the grease off the nicely machined surfaces we have paid so much money for, as well as upsetting the rifle in the bags.
In my experience group size is better with a full length resize.
In my experience group size is better with a full length resize.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
I think most of the BR and Comp shooters are using "Custom" dies if they full length resize. If the fired brass fits back in the chamber, I'll neck size and reload. Custom dies will work the brass less that regular off the shelf reloading dies. And the less you work that brass, the longer it will last. But most of us know that anyway. Knowing it and doing it are two different things.
The bottom line is when you find a load that truly shoots good in your rifle, whether you shoulder bump or neck size will have very little effect on groups. Both methods work well depending on rifle and cartridge. As far as brass life, my personal findings show no advantage of neck sizing over shoulder bump or full length size.
In my experience, neck sizing only usually results in harder extraction as well. If you are experiencing a tight fitting case as you close the bolt, chances are the extraction will also require some added effort. This could disturb the gun setup since you now have to apply more force on the bolt to open it.
Nearly everyone I know in F Class FL sizes. If you have multiple barrels chambered with the same reamer, there are still slight differences in headspacing (in my rifles, maybe 0.001"). If I want to use the same brass in multiple rifles, FL sizing is the only way to go really.
Nearly everyone I know in F Class FL sizes. If you have multiple barrels chambered with the same reamer, there are still slight differences in headspacing (in my rifles, maybe 0.001"). If I want to use the same brass in multiple rifles, FL sizing is the only way to go really.
I accept that the competition folks do things differently and I believe I understand why but my experience is different - just as different as our guns and uses are. I don't need high speed as a hunter, my bullets are loaded below the listed book maximums for groups that are less than an inch at 100 yards. To harvest food animals and dispatch pests that is enough accuracy. I have been loading "off the shelf" and old guns for the last 45 years with the last 40 neck sizing just part of the neck leaving enough unsized so the cartridge centers in the chamber. In the last 40 years No cartridge that I have fired from my rifles has ever had to be full length sized and I have never had to bump a shoulder back. The cases will eventually wear out because I still trim them.
I don't own any target rifles, I don't use custom dies, and I don't have to push pressures to get a bullet out to 1000 yards before it goes subsonic. I hunt at ranges up to 200 yards. For me, partial neck sizing provides me with accuracy and case life that I never had when full length sizing. If you are a long range bench rest shooter you may need to do things differently.
I don't own any target rifles, I don't use custom dies, and I don't have to push pressures to get a bullet out to 1000 yards before it goes subsonic. I hunt at ranges up to 200 yards. For me, partial neck sizing provides me with accuracy and case life that I never had when full length sizing. If you are a long range bench rest shooter you may need to do things differently.
OR a short-range competitor OR any shooter who seeks the optimum accuracy of their rifle which oft times will require loading to at or near manual listed max loads. You've got to minimize condition effects (wind) in order to maximize accuracy-UNLESS you are wind-reading guru.
I have reloaded ammunition for my 358 Winchester that shoots average group sizes of .33" at 100 yards. It is well below maximum loads and is good out to 200 yards easily. My 3006, even though it is an old used up 03A3 that my dad sporterized shoots 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 100 yards and stays under 2" at 200 yards and I have never used the maximum listed loads for it either. Hunters have been doing the same for decades and it has always worked well.
I understand that there is a difference in the two methods but both work in their place. Competition shooters wear out barrels and know they will have to replace them. I have yet to replace a barrel and that old 3006 has more than a few thousand rounds through it. The chamber is oversize and the throat is probably eroded but it still shoots under an inch with the right load. When hunting I get to choose when I shoot and if the conditions aren't favorable I can wait.
I understand that there is a difference in the two methods but both work in their place. Competition shooters wear out barrels and know they will have to replace them. I have yet to replace a barrel and that old 3006 has more than a few thousand rounds through it. The chamber is oversize and the throat is probably eroded but it still shoots under an inch with the right load. When hunting I get to choose when I shoot and if the conditions aren't favorable I can wait.
Before I got into BR competition, I had the same mindset. For 36 years I used to shoot only in favorable conditions. But I could not repeat group accuracy (and I admit I was fussy) on an aggregate level or even from one outing to the next. I wanted to learn why repeating accuracy standards was so fleeting. I was lucky to live near several IBS record holders who helped me along and jumped in. I learned more in one year of competition than I did in the previous 36. Wind matters....even those light breezes under 5 mph. Now it is extremely rare for me to hold the crosshair dead center on the bull as there is almost always a condition to correct for. It really is a whole different ballgame and makes shooting much more enjoyable. BTW take that .358 to an IBS score shoot....you will place well.
LHSmith,
I don't want to make the time to prepare and travel to shoot my 358 in a match of any kind and I got out of competitions that actually kept record scores a long time ago. I keep track of my scores on my own with copies of targets and records of loads. My brother thinks I'm OCD about it but It has served me well. This spring the silhouette meets will start up again and I am thinking about trying the three gun too. The three gun keeps scores but I don't really care about the scores other than mine. I expect to start out and then improve as I learn. I have watched a few matches as an RSO and it looks to be challenging but fun too. Time will tell.
I don't want to make the time to prepare and travel to shoot my 358 in a match of any kind and I got out of competitions that actually kept record scores a long time ago. I keep track of my scores on my own with copies of targets and records of loads. My brother thinks I'm OCD about it but It has served me well. This spring the silhouette meets will start up again and I am thinking about trying the three gun too. The three gun keeps scores but I don't really care about the scores other than mine. I expect to start out and then improve as I learn. I have watched a few matches as an RSO and it looks to be challenging but fun too. Time will tell.
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