First time rebarreling questions

[dgeesaman]

I have a pair of Sako A1 6PPCs. Both are in good condition and I really enjoy shooting them and one will remain my "shooter". In the next year I expect I'll need a new barrel. I'm choosing a barrel to put on order.

I know I want another no-turn neck and I want a drop-in fit. For the size of the investment, I don't mind buying a premium barrel months in advance.

Here are my questions:
1) I see a few barrel makers will contour, thread, and deep chamber for this action. But the really premium barrels are all 1.20 to 1.25 dia at the breech. My Sako is 1.035 here. Should I make sure the barrel arrives with a matching contour, or is it normal to let the gunsmith re-contour the shank end? Or should I order a straight blank and let the smith match the factory contour? (Note: Lilja has this contour shown on their list)

2) What should I look for in getting the barrel chambered? I'd like at least a .268 neck to run no-turn Norma brass (.011 neck thickness) and will buy a Harrell's FL die to match the shape. Not sure if there are any other considerations if I'm relying on someone else's reamer.

3) I don't love the long throat on the Sako chambers. How do I specify the new barrel so that I can touch the lands with 65gr bullets and have reasonable neck engagement?

4) Since accuracy is of great importance, should I try to get this in the hands of a benchrest gunsmith, or a regular gunsmith with good reputation?

I know I could ping some gunsmiths but I don't want to waste their time on simple background knowledge.

Thanks

 

[DaveTooley]

As a riflesmith please please get it contoured. Narrow your choice to two or three barrel manufacturers and then find out who can provide the matching contour. Then move forward.
Get it unchambered and let your smith do all the work. As a precision rifle smith I don't like going behind someone else's work.
As for who can do the work. Any reputable precision smith can do the work.

 

[shortgrass]

Many of the custom barrel makers will copy an existing contour. And, as DaveTooley says, have a precision minded gunsmith do the fitting and chambering.

 

[jepp2]

Should I make sure the barrel arrives with a matching contour,

I just order what I want to match the existing barrel. This of course assumes I don't want to change the contour. I will show an order I placed with Krieger for a new Sako and Cooper Barrel. Both were straight taper barrels, and I wanted the new one to be exactly like the one I was going to remove. I called them to place the order. For a Remington Varmint profile, I just pick that contour and order on-line.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm a gunsmith and former tool and die machinist...and I agree with what others have said. Let the barrel maker do the contouring.

That said, you might do some measuring and see how much different your contour is than a Savage. Imy thinking they will be close and you might be able to do some minor stock in letting to use one. You would still need it to be fit and chambered to your action by a qualified smith but you might find a Savage prefix on someone's shelf. If the contour is close enough, you might save a long wait on the right contour. Just a thought.

 

[Will Henry]

If you can accquire a barrel which approximates the contour you want, there should be no issue with the gunsmith turning the shank end to match up to your Sako action. If I am asked to install a pre-chambered barrel, I will do so but I won't mark it with my name. WH

 

[JRS]

Order the barrel to the specs you want.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm a gunsmith and former tool and die machinist...and I agree with what others have said. Let the barrel maker do the contouring.

That said, you might do some measuring and see how much different your contour is than a Savage. Imy thinking they will be close and you might be able to do some minor stock in letting to use one. You would still need it to be fit and chambered to your action by a qualified smith but you might find a Savage prefix on someone's shelf. If the contour is close enough, you might save a long wait on the right contour. Just a thought.

dang auto correct!

 

[Shawnba67]

Turning the shank is easy. Matching the finish on rest of barrel can be troublesome. On stainless how you hold your mouth affects the polish.

 

[tobnpr]

Depends on the length of the cylinder at the breech and how steep the taper is on he desired contour from my perspective. I work between centers so truing the cylinder to run in the steady is just part of the normal process. But if it's a gradual taper after the cylinder the turned section might be longer than you'd like (some contours have a steeper "step" for an inch or two after the cylinder before a more gradual taper to the muzzle)

One manuf. I buy from will do a custom contour for a very reasonable charge...others will not consider one-off's as the programming and pulling a machine off production contours isn't worth it for them.

In the event you plan on Cerakoting, having the smith turn down the shank and the resulting finish becomes a non-issue.

 

[yukonal]

Kreiger and Brux have both turned barrel shanks and contours to the exact dimensions I have specified at the time of placing the order. For no extra charge. A gunsmith will more than likely charge you to do it when he chambers your barrel.

 

[dgeesaman]

I've made some calls and with what I already learned here, I'm beginning to see some consensus about the answers to my questions. *some* consensus.
A1) I should buy the barrel contoured if I have enough time to order directly from the barrel maker. It's slow, tedious, and un-smithy work to ask your gunsmith to do contouring on a manual lathe.
A2) Call a few precision smiths and ask about what reamers they have for the chambering. It's better when a smith has multiple reamer options in a certain cartridge vs. "I've got one of those". Also, the barrel makers make amazing barrels but they're not all amazing at chambering.
A3) Same answer as above.
A4) I should find a benchrest or other precision gunsmith. Their techniques will be far more refined and you'll get more for the money.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

I've made some calls and with what I already learned here, I'm beginning to see some consensus about the answers to my questions. *some* consensus.
A1) I should buy the barrel contoured if I have enough time to order directly from the barrel maker. It's slow, tedious, and un-smithy work to ask your gunsmith to do contouring on a manual lathe.
A2) Call a few precision smiths and ask about what reamers they have for the chambering. It's better when a smith has multiple reamer options in a certain cartridge vs. "I've got one of those". Also, the barrel makers make amazing barrels but they're not all amazing at chambering.
A3) Same answer as above.
A4) I should find a benchrest or other precision gunsmith. Their techniques will be far more refined and you'll get more for the money.

First find a precision gunsmith that does Sako barreling. Many do not as they are metric threads.

 

[dgeesaman]

First find a precision gunsmith that does Sako barreling. Many do not as they are metric threads.

At least a couple of the smiths I spoke with don't just "do metric", they use wire gauges and match the action threads within much tighter tolerances.

 

[hogpatrol]

At least a couple of the smiths I spoke with don't just "do metric", they use wire gauges and match the action threads within much tighter tolerances.

Huh? Threads are threads, English, metric, Whitworth, Acme, Buttress, etc. None of them are any big deal. Some lathes require the half nut to stay engaged, others need gear changes, some you can quick change. Properly ground tool bits or insert tools, measuring tools and you're good to go.

 

[dgeesaman]

Huh? Threads are threads, English, metric, Whitworth, Acme, Buttress, etc. None of them are any big deal. Some lathes require the half nut to stay engaged, others need gear changes, some you can quick change. Properly ground tool bits or insert tools, measuring tools and you're good to go.

To be more clear, I agree threads are threads if your gunsmith threads the barrel to perfectly match the action threads. Precision barrel threading only re-uses a machine setup when you're getting multiple barrels for one action.

If the barrel threads are simply cut to a standard spec, you'll have lower quality of engagement between the barrel and action.

 

[shortgrass]

At least a couple of the smiths I spoke with don't just "do metric", they use wire gauges and match the action threads within much tighter tolerances.

Hogwash! Someone's trying to blow smoke up your butt! Barrel to receiver fit is done on a 1 to 1 basis. Who says the threads in the receiver are 'perfect' and to spec? There is much to be said for mating threads that have a bit of 'slack' in them. Threads are a fastener, not an alinement device. Hit the major diameter minus .002" and start cutting threads. When it appears you're getting close, start checking by attempting to screw the receiver on. Keep cutting threads 'till it fits as desired. Job done!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

To be more clear, I agree threads are threads if your gunsmith threads the barrel to perfectly match the action threads. Precision barrel threading only re-uses a machine setup when you're getting multiple barrels for one action.

If the barrel threads are simply cut to a standard spec, you'll have lower quality of engagement between the barrel and action.

I don't disagree with that statement specifically, but precision thread fit is more of a "look at me" thing when it comes to guns. I've cut em loose and I've cut em tight. Never seen a bit of difference in how they shoot. Yes, there is a thing called too lose, but it's a long way a class 3,2 or even a class 1 fit, to a problem due to thread fit. Too tight OTOH, can and does cause problems. On thae same subject..just because you "can" cut a thread to be spot on at the top of the crest, I'm a believer in knocking that little area down a few thou. It does absolutely nothing until it bottoms out in the bottom of the other thread or a tiny little burr comes off of it in your "perfect" fit threads and cause a gall.

How many here can state the clearances at all critical points of a class 1,2 and 3 thread. I can't and if you can't either, I think you should knock those crests down.

Everything has tolerances, so if you're only happy with a class 3 thread on the male,or God forbid even tighter, shouldn't you at least have plug gages for every class and thread size and pitch that you will thread for?

dgeesaman, I'm not singling you out here, just bringing to light that people who do this every day know the difference between a good and proper thread vs one done for show that can only do more damage than good. Personally, I'm not impressed by a thread fit with near zero clearance. I know that a teeny piece of debris can make it a nightmare. Gun barrels engage receivers at a shoulder.

 

[dgeesaman]

dgeesaman, I'm not singling you out here, just bringing to light that people who do this every day know the difference between a good and proper thread vs one done for show that can only do more damage than good. Personally, I'm not impressed by a thread fit with near zero clearance. I know that a teeny piece of debris can make it a nightmare. Gun barrels engage receivers at a shoulder.

I didn't say anything about attempting to make line-line or interference fit threads. Or using sharply crested threads. I attempted to say that the benchrest riflesmiths I've spoken with so far requested to cut the threads on the barrel themselves with the action in hand and make the best possible fit to the action.

David

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I didn't say anything about attempting to make line-line or interference fit threads. Or using sharply crested threads. I attempted to say that the benchrest riflesmiths I've spoken with so far requested to cut the threads on the barrel themselves with the action in hand and make the best possible fit to the action.

David

Ok, ok..and my point is to not judge the smith favorably by super tight fitting threads when in fact, it may be an indication that they don't fully understand why too close of a fit can only cause problems. Many gunsmith are basically self taught in machining. Trust me on this..shooting forums are are not the best place to learn machining. Before you know it, someone will be convincing you that a Clas 3 fit is too loose...seriously! There are standards for PROPER thread fit.

By a machinist and benchrest gunsmith.