First time annealing cases. How do they look?

[tonyben]

These are 4x fired Winchester 308 brass. I've noticed my groups have opened up a little and I'm trying to get the accuracy back. These were shot out of an M14. I annealed 25 out of 50 cases and I'm going to shoot five 5-shot groups of annealed vs un-annealed from the same batch. All cases are weighed and are within 1 grain of each other.

I chucked them up in my cordless drill and fired up my bernz-o-matic. I turned out the lights and hit the cases for 6 to 8 seconds until they just started to glow, then dumped them in a tub of water. Now I just need to size them and load them up...

Annealed vs un-annealed...




Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony.

 

[Raythemanroe]

The one to the right (not annealed) has a big dent..






Ray

 

[watercam]

I feel the only way to know for sure is to use Tempilaq either 750 inside the neck or 475 on the body. It is available from most welding supply shops.
For my Lapua Palma .308 6-6.5 seconds is ideal. They weigh, on average, 175 grains if that helps at all.

 

[CaptainMal]

Hard to really see. I zoomed on the Photobucket to look and you can see the change. It just looks like it's not enough. Of course, not enough is better than too much. If you can see it glow it's too much.

Use it and see. If you are under 10 seconds I doubt it would be too much but some cases do seem to heat up faster.

 

[Jet]

I'm new to annealing and have read as much as I can on the subject so take my comments for what their worth. I wouldn't base your annealing results on how they look. Recommend you use 750 tempilaq inside the necks and 450 tempilaq on the lower 1/3 exterior portion on the case (above the web).

Using 750 tempilaq inside the case neck will let you know when your cases reaches the desired temp. The 450 tempilaq on the lower portion of the case will let you know that the heat didn't transfer to far down the case body.

Good shooting.

Jet

 

[Raythemanroe]

I think I would go 8-10 seconds also, the color change looks to be on the light side.. I would if i was eye balling it, count until it was a bit further down the case while holding the flame on the neck shoulder area..Repeat after that and try to keep everything consistent..



Ray

 

[tonyben]

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. The dents are the price we pay for shooting semi-autos. They disappear on the next firing.

The cases weigh around 165 grains. Maybe I should hold them farther away and longer from the point of the bright blue flame. I'd rather under anneal than over anneal. I'll do some more experimenting with them tonight. I was holding the flame on the neck with flame pouring over the mouth and over the shoulder.

After re-visiting some articles, I think my heat was turned up waaaaayyyy too much! The bright blue tip was at least 3 inches long. I don't think I'm over annealed though. Again, I just started to see a glow and I dumped it in water.

Always listening for golden nuggets of info.

Thanks,
Tony.

 

[savageshooter86]

Glowing red? My Lapua is running about 9 seconds. I use a dark room and heat until necks just begin to change to slight orange(actually it's almost you can tell it's about to start changing) and remove. If it turns more color than slight orange you might be over cooking them. I aim torch flame right above the neck/shoulder


Don't think the water is needed at the end

 

[tonyben]

I take them off as soon as I start to see any glow. On the intentional over-cooked ones, they turned red, then orange, so as soon as I see red, I take them off.

Tony.

 

[savagedasher]

Year back we used melted bees wax bullet lead pot We had a rack we could do 10 at a time.and quenched them in distilled water. There was no way the could be over heated. Larry

 

[amlevin]

the color change looks to be on the light side.. I would if i was eye balling it, count until it was a bit further down the case while holding the flame on the neck shoulder area..Repeat after that and try to keep everything consistent..



Ray

I use a temp crayon to gauge my annealing temps. Even doing that I find that some brass will show a nice big "bluish" demarcation line between the annealed and un-annealed portion of the case even though the time/temp's are exactly the same. Different lots, different results.

 

[Raythemanroe]

My brass is all the same firing and lot..


Ray

 

[gotcha]

+1 Amlevin, You cant judge by case color. Some cases have different alloying. Some cases are effected by type of cleaning method prior to annealing. Consistent flame distance/temp and consistent timing is the only way to control uniformity of results............ You'll know if your method is good when you monitor bullet seating resistance. JMHO

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Based on my experience with Winchester brass, it got a little too hot.

When properly annealed, mine doesn't show any brown color - just a darker gold color with a nearly invisible blue transition just below the shoulder.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I dim the lights in the room and watch the edges of the blue flame after it deflects off the case. I want to see the flame start to turn orange as the case is leaving the flame. No orange flame and I dont feel they are getting annealed as my force indicator does not show a reduction in seating force.
Alex

 

[tonyben]

Okay, after reading everyone's post, I tried again last night and turned down the heat and went for a longer time. The necks now have just a slight tint of blue. I went for 10 to 11 seconds which is when they just started to glow and I removed them from the heat.

Once I was done, I came back and read this thread and saw the guy who said Winchester commercial brass will color differently and I'd probably over heated them. ???

It's hard to tell, but there's just a hint of blue on the necks. Also, I seated a few rounds and pushed them on the tabletop with a good amount of force and the OAL didn't change. I'm going to be single-feeding these rounds anyways with the bullet tip just inside the chamber and the base still clamped inside the magazine and let the bolt fly home (standard practice for M14's). My guess is that since the bullet tips are not budging, they will fire just fine and if I over-annealed, the necks will work-harden with the next firing and sizing' correct?





Tony.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I think they look better.


Ray

 

[Terry]

Well done!

 

[lrgoodger]

As has been said, you can't always judge by color. With Lapua brass, I get the same color that's on new cases if I let them sit a few weeks after cleaning. If I anneal right after cleaning, there is very little color change at all.

 

[JRS]

And after you tumble them, the color is completely gone ;D